http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

Watch the first chapter on human nature please.

I won't ever dismiss ADHD, I know it exists, and those who suffer from it benefit greatly from treatment. No argument there, and admittingly, Robinson seems to forget about California in his chart, but that wasn't where he was going with it -I think-. What he was saying was that for those children who are being wrongly medicated, while they life and exist in history's most sensory-stimulating period ever, are being forced to assimilate information in a linear fashion, while society becomes more and more, uhh, non-linear..

of course, if prescriptions in California rival those in Montana.. then the chart in the cartoon all of a sudden becomes a little more interesting..

I'm sorry, but what is your point by linking to this? You provide absolutely no context to what I said, no nothing. I am not going to waste some half hour or more of my time into something in which you could probably condense into a paragraph or two.

I did watch the first, oh, 15 minutes of the video. Any thing that takes 10 minutes to even really begin its point is both boring and pretentious. By 15 minutes I realized that what it was saying regarding genetics and nurture versus nature I had learned in freshman year of college. Nature versus nurture, genotype versus phenotype. Mind getting to the point? I have a degree in psychology from one of the better psychology departments in the United States - feel free to use big words if you want.

Sure. The educational system in the United States (and elsewhere) is based upon a linear model. 1 + 1 = 2. Got it. The point is, however, that you can't start working on calculus before you figure out algebra. The educational system is linear because the mathematical systems (and other such systems) themselves are linear - you need to learn A, then B, then C and then D. Learning D first is preposterous because D requires that you know C, which requires that you know B, etc. You can't read books until you know the words and the grammar that make up those books. Simply because society is becoming more fragmented in terms of information sources / distractions does not require that the entire educational system be uprooted. Sure there are some kids who don't focus well in class or don't have strengths in a certain field. Myself? I don't care for math. But my reading comprehension and English comprehension is pretty much perfect (or so says the ACT). Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. There certainly was a time when I said "am I ever going to use this trigonometry junk later on in life?" And it turns out that I have used it, several times. All anecdotal, all basically useless in empirical studies. But Robinson's point - that education must be basically reworked - is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Yeah, I doubt that. It's California.

My point is that nobody us born with ADHD, they develop it when they are in their environment. Therefore the eastern coast has such a higher percentage of ADHD, you should look at the environment of that area. This includes everything, from the education system to the way they live at home.
That's the only real way of stopping the ADHD "epidemic".

Also the school system should be completely uplifted and changed cause as it is it is extremely inefficient and failing. And anything that is inefficient and as important as the education system should be fixed. Look at Finland for example, their education system is a lot more efficient and crime, child defects and teen pregnancies are all lower per capital than the USA, hell the USA is the highest, almost by double than any other first world country in all 3 categories and all 3 boil down to education and social inequality. (One of which is off topic)
But with a degree you probably already know all of this.

Didn't read past the OP but let me change the title of the thread...

'America's education system is fine for upper-middle class white males'

Unfortunately I didn't fit said criteria while in school. Neither did thousands of other students. You got lucky, my friend.

Please read the OP, it's so hilariously absurd.

Thousands? Quite an understatement.

I meant in my school district alone.

So, has the OP changed his mind? Tune in next time for another episode of...

Here, while we're still on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKTfaro96dg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niU1E3SSTAM

ADHD is very common in California. I was originally in a program that many might be familiar with called GATE and was later on disqualified from it due to having too much energy and not being able to sit still. Was then later diagnosed ADHD, and have always been this way. There are truths to the notion that someone with a severe amount of ADHD might have issues with a wide ranging variety of things like education, relationships, and so on, there is far more importance on helping the person understand what it is they have and how to deal with it, far more than just slapping a pill on them and making them think this will make them better. Ritalin, for example, is a crack pill, and does nothing to help the person in and of itself. Furthermore, it was hilarious how doctors throughout my life were nothing more than pill pushers in this circumstance trying to force medication upon me, warning me of the plights of life and how I won't be able to deal with it. I was also in programs with other people who had ADHD and noticed I was one of the worst cases, yet even as a kid the only one who even understood what it was I had and how to cope with it.

So in a way I agree with you and greatly disagree with Reneer, but since this topic is about education and not how crappy the health care system in the US is, I will make another note that in 6th grade I was suspended roughly 20 times, mostly due to the teacher I had being an old, inconsiderate [censored] who knew that I was ADHD but instead of helping me learn in the ways described to her, she tried to separate me from class and instead of being inclusive, was exclusive, which resulted in me lashing out. To put it mildly, putting someone in the back of a classroom with 6 foot cardboard preventing them from seeing the rest of class because of their restlessness is not a way of dealing with a student who has ADHD. Her methods were sadly supported by my school, and my mother, noting the adverse affect this medication had, allowed me to finish 6th grade in home school. I actually did fine in school, graduated when I was supposed to, and maintained a 3.7 GPA in college, without applying to the DRC (disability resource center) as people wanted me to.

Certainly ADHD is an issue, but it really depends wholly on how one defines it. Yes, there is an exaggeration of cases in the US, and yes there is without a doubt plenty of pill pushing doctors trying to medicate kids as a solution instead of helping them cope with what they have, but those who do have it need help in understanding what they have and possibly what sort of accommodations they might need to be able to learn. ADHD is not the only affliction, and I say affliction because there is a wide variety of behaviour outside some ambiguous and changing version of "normal", I maintain skepticism about the ways people in the US manage and define these behaviours, increasingly attempting to label those who simply act outside of the "norm" as having a disorder, and the crappy way the US education system handles individuals regarding these ambiguous afflictions.

To put it bluntly, and in a sound byte-esque sentence for some American to easily quote and use to disagree with, the US education system stinks.

Brain drain ftw?

All I can say is that your experience is atypical.

First, school should NOT be easy. Getting an A in any class should be work. Nowadays, if a kid just shows up and bothers to read the lesson and do some studying, they are almost assured an A in the class. When kids fail school, I just roll my eyes because the standard is so low now that it should be impossible for any kid making any sort of effort to get less than a C in a class.

Second, my nephew and niece go to suburban/rural schools and they were put into private school for a time because of issues with bullying and poor teachers. Whether you get quality teachers or horrible ones (as well as school quality) is just luck of the draw on where you live. Most schools are pretty bad, but not all of them are.

Where the school system suffers is with the special ed department. my cousins have autism and they were placed in special ed. the problem with their condition is that its a spectrum disorder and now with the [politics] most of the special ed teachers are losing their jobs. needless to say, hes in the second grade and was placed in mainstream classes since he was deemed too smart for special ed, can comprehend the whole ideas of multiplication, conversion, decimals, and reads to the higher classes since most of them are illiterate. He starts to freak out when things are to easy because hes bored.

Agreed, another problem with the school/health system is when you have a mental disease like ADHD, they label you, which makes you live shadowed by your disease. I remember when I was diagnosed with depression my doctor told me that I better take antidepressants or else its all going to get worse. Well I didn't and I know I have a better outlook on life than most "normal" people do. Addrall is given you way to frequently, and its abused by students here a fair bit.



Uhhh adderall is amphetimine, as in a chemical that can cause psychosis, addiction, tolerance, etc. It sounds familiar to something like, oh I dunno methamphetamine. Doctors give this out way too much, and to people who really don't need it. What ever happened to using something like exercise and diet to help control it first? Some of these so called, ADHD cases are just kids who are a bit over excitable, or hopped up on sugar and coffee, will giving them adderall really help?

It'll help some, it won't help others. The problem is always the "one size fits all" mentality, which will always fail a lot of people. Both the pro- and anti-medication types are frequently guilty of this, and it seems to be a common problem within medicine in general. Some people do need a stimulant to sort out their thought processes, as paradoxical as that may sound; whereas it'll simply make others more hyper. Those responsible for their welfare need to put a bit more thought into individual cases, but it seems to be too much to expect, sadly.

Oh no I totally understand that some people need medication, and I get that a stimulant helps some people with ADHD. I've known a few guys who are much better off with the medication. I just mean that doctors need to put more effort into each patient, rather than just giving them some pills.

I'm certainly in agreement there. It's a problem that seems to be as old as the hills, unfortunately.

As if, that's not how opinions work. If every single other person disagrees with you and backs up their statements with facts, it obviously means that every single other person is wrong and making things up to bolster their foolishness.

In Finland the teachers make the tests and are more respected than American teachers. Students who haven't gotten as far as others usually get a different test than others. We don't need to pay for food in school, we get 15 minute breaks after each class etc.
Also we get long vacations.

There's going to be a document about Finnish education system. If you want to learn more, you should watch it.
Also, I think this counts as a "USA vs. EU" thread. Are those allowed here?

I don't know, but it looks like it'll make it to 200 posts.

No, they're not automatically assured an A in the class. If you go to a school in a decent enough part of the country, you still need to work to get an A. Yes, you need to pay attention. Yes, you need to do your homework. Yes, you need to study. And if you do all 3 you'll probably do well with any luck at all. But you make this sound as easy as 1-2-3. For some people of higher intelligence than me it might be, but me and most of the country of you know, average intelligence, we need to work hard to get A's. I'm a straight A student and I know for a fact that I'm not that smart. But I work my butt off to get there.

Completely incorrect, ignorant at best. Tell that to all the mothers and fathers and friends and siblings of suicide victims.

maybe at the OP's school there was a severe lack of bullying.

I have Waiting for Superman in my queue for netflix. Just have to return the movie I have now.

I watched a documentary about charter schools that was based out of Harlem and if the OP watched that, I'm sure his mind would change. The heartbreak that families go through all because they don't want to send their kids to the failing public school system is truly eye opening. The movie is called, The Lottery and I believe it is still watchable instantly on netflix.

Which is why I said "ignorant at best."