America's Education System Is Fine : Othor Games

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:55 am

the best country in the world.

Some of us might dispute that.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:10 pm

Moderators: This is not a political thread, please don't turn it into one, since that would be against the rules. This is just me sharing my thoughts on my 13 years going through the education system of the best country in the world.

*snip*

At that point I decided that the rest of your wall of text wasn't worth reading.

Haven't read the rest of the thread and have no first hand experience with the American education system either. What I heard from one of my professors was that America has most of the best universities in the world and such a poor high school system that only foreign students are good enough to be allowed in the better universities. I'm sure he was exaggerating though.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:59 pm

At that point I decided that the rest of your wall of text wasn't worth reading.

Haven't read the rest of the thread and have no first hand experience with the American education system either. What I heard from one of my professors was that America has most of the best universities in the world and such a poor high school system that only foreign students are good enough to be allowed in the better universities. I'm sure he was exaggerating though.

Also there is alota yalk here in Ontario about Asians in post secondary school. Apparently, people are complaining that Asians are making it too competitive. (alota complaining about this at UofT, but I know asians are killin it at UWaterloo.)

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:03 pm

The US system is good if the school is private (expensive) or in a wealthy area.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:48 am

Wow. I have a lot of foreign students at my univ, many of them Asians. They're definitely good, but they're not some kind of super students compared to the rest of us.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:37 pm

Korea is 3rd? Its at the top, makes sense, because at my school koreans are at the top of most/all science courses. Most med students need a undergrad degree to be considered for med school, the last person to get into med without an undergrad here did it after completing 2 years of an undergrad, was a korean person, I found out through my korean friend who is at the top of our class lol. I remember he told me how his dad found out he diddnt get an A in a math class on Christmas and the next day he couldnt stay at home he had to go to school and study.

Where did you see that South Korea was third? They're third in science, but you need to sum all three scores to get an overall rank.

South Korea: 539+546+538 = 1623
Finland: 536+541+554 = 1631

So overall Finland is first, South Korea second.

Also, you're completely misunderstanding the whole thing - this has nothing to do with nationality. This has to do with how good a country's education of reading, maths and science is. The fact that a Korean person is a good student means nothing for South Korea's score, unless he is studying in South Korea.

Moderators: This is not a political thread, please don't turn it into one, since that would be against the rules. This is just me sharing my thoughts on my 13 years going through the education system of the best country in the world.

*snip*

At that point I decided that the rest of your wall of text wasn't worth reading.

Wow, I didn't even see that part. :mellow: And all this time I thought he was talking about the education system in USA.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:34 pm

This is just me sharing my thoughts on my 13 years going through the education system........

See...I read this sentence and immediately thought. "You're 13. What do you know?"

I then stopped reading after that sentence.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:02 pm

See...I read this sentence and immediately thought. "You're 13. What do you know?"

I then stopped reading after that sentence.

And Europeans like you are supposed to be "all intelligent gods"?

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:25 pm

See...I read this sentence and immediately thought. "You're 13. What do you know?"

A person doesn't get into the educational system immediately upon birth. If you checked http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/661713-rpgplayer/ you would've seen that he is eighteen years old.

edit:

And Europeans like you are supposed to be "all intelligent gods"?

See, now you yourself are making this topic border the discussion of politics by saying flame-baiting generalising things like that.

Also, how do you even know (s)he is European?

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:47 am

And Europeans like you are supposed to be "all intelligent gods"?

Well.. yes :laugh:

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:53 pm

A person doesn't get into the educational system immediately upon birth. If you checked http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/661713-rpgplayer/ you would've seen that he is eighteen years old.

edit:

See, now you yourself are making this topic border the discussion of politics by saying flame-baiting generalising things like that.

Oops....sorry......either way. Still applies. He's 18.....what does he honestly know about it? He is basing his entire post off of his little world without experiencing anything outside of his said world. He is just barely out of high-school, probably hasn't even got himself a job for the summer and still has no clue what he is going to do.

And, why does everyone think I'm European lately? I live in NJ, USA. Went through the crumby education system in the USA. Was bullied, was beat up....had no friends.

Which, is why I still to this day. Do not trust anyone, and hate everyone.

At any rate. I wasn't trying to flame-bait. I'll just back out of the thread then. Enjoy your perfect little education system OP.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:25 am

And, why does everyone think I'm European lately? I live in NJ, USA.

Like I said.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:06 am

A person doesn't get into the educational system immediately upon birth. If you checked http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/661713-rpgplayer/ you would've seen that he is eighteen years old.

edit:

See, now you yourself are making this topic border the discussion of politics by saying flame-baiting generalising things like that.

Also, how do you even know (s)he is European?

We do in Europe, that's why we are All Intelligent Gods.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:42 pm

We do in Europe, that's why we are All Intelligent Gods.

No, we don't. Even if you counted kindergarten years into being-in-the-educational-system years (which is ridiculous), it still wouldn't be immediately upon birth.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:17 am

Wow. I have a lot of foreign students at my univ, many of them Asians. They're definitely good, but they're not some kind of super students compared to the rest of us.

Same here. The University I went to also has a significant amount of foreign students, half of them come from Vietnam or China, and the other half from Nigeria. The former students seem to be business and/or econ majors, while the latter was spread out and had plenty of students in the pre-med program. Also, the students who came from Asia tended to only stick together, while the Nigerian students were a lot more part of the general student population.

And I went to a US univeristy

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:52 pm

Like I said.

Was just gonna edit my post and say my second post wasn't directed at you, Veeno.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:33 am

Was just gonna edit my post and say my second post wasn't directed at you, Veeno.

No, I wasn't offended and I knew it wasn't directed at me, I was just pointing it out.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:21 pm

No, we don't. Even if you counted kindergarten years into being-in-the-educational-system years (which is ridiculous), it still wouldn't be immediately upon birth.

I thought that the sarcasm would be obvious enough, guess I should have put an emote there :shrug:

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:26 am

I thought that the sarcasm would be obvious enough, guess I should have put an emote there :shrug:

In certain situations it is a bit tricky to discern it from pure text. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark#Sarcasm works well enough for me.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:08 am

In certain situations it is a bit tricky to discern it from pure text. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark#Sarcasm works well enough for me.

I'll remember that on my next attempt at a witty reply!

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:48 pm

Same here. The University I went to also has a significant amount of foreign students, half of them come from Vietnam or China, and the other half from Nigeria. The former students seem to be business and/or econ majors, while the latter was spread out and had plenty of students in the pre-med program. Also, the students who came from Asia tended to only stick together, while the Nigerian students were a lot more part of the general student population.

And I went to a US univeristy

Nigerian? They must have fled here to avoid prosecution by the new regime, since the old Nigerian prince's father got ousted =P

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:37 am

It is what it is.

I remember my first year of uni. I sat down in my math class and there was this 14 year old asian kid. I felt dumb sitting there, but it is what it is. I think he was from India.

There was another guy from India who was in a couple of my classes last year. Full time is 4 courses, 4 - 5 is average course load, 6 for applied sciences. This guy took 7 one semester and 8 another, never went to class for most courses except to write mid terms, do labs, final review and write the final and this mo fo got straight A's with a few A+'s in the year. I still remember I was sitting to write my exam and his seat was assigned (randomly) next to mine, and I did not know he was in the course until exam time came and he came and sat down beside me cuz I never saw him in class. His English was bad, I remember gettin him into our group so he can get that A in English, he needed 1 Eng class for his degree

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:35 pm

No, I'm not a prodigy or anything, but I went through the education system and it worked fine. I didn't go to some fascist Orwellian high school with metal detectors, school uniforms, strict dress code, drug sniffing dogs, or police everywhere. I also didn't go to a run-down high school with gangs, violence, bullying, or anything like that. I just went to a normal American high school. Please note that I am basing this entire thread upon my personal experience, which was with a high school in a semi-rural area, and by no means represents urban (city) high schools, which are likely gang infested.

1) You are basing this all on your personal experience and 2) You went to a semi-rural high school. As others have mentioned, basing your opinions solely off of your own experience does not work when you try to generalize your own experiences onto a larger system. I realize that you state you are basing your opinions off of your own experience, but that doesn't mean that your experience is similar to the experience of others or that your opinions should be taken as the standard.

I went through the system like everyone else, did my education like everyone else, K-6, 7-8, and 9-12, and I wasn't generally a straight A student, nor did I have perfect behavior. I definitely could have been a straight A student had I applied myself more, but that was not the fault of the education system, that was a fault of my own. I am an extremely intelligent human being, and have been since I was about 13. I can code and design an entire fully functional website in less than an hour, I am informed about almost all political issues and have opinions on them, I study political ideologies and religions in my free time to further my knowledge, I know how the world works both in high school and after it, and I was always a step ahead of most of my peers, and still am today in many cases.

Congratulations on your academic successes.

We teach our children and later our teenagers just fine, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Does that mean I want to lessen funding towards education? No, in fact I want to increase funding towards education. I feel as though education is very important for today's young people, but remember, high school is all about learning how to become a productive and social member of society, K-6 on the other hand is all about learning basics such as the English language, science, mathematics, and other core classes. My school district never had the best funding, and in my final year of high school it was/is crumbling now, because of lack of state funding. It has gotten so bad that they had to close down a lot of elementary schools in the area, and merge them with other elementary schools. They're even planning on merging an elementary school with my local junior high school, which many of the locals, myself included, are strongly against.

We do not, on the whole, teach our children and teenagers "just fine." There are numerous empirically-determined examples of just this fact that demonstrate that the United States (public) education system, K-12, is not producing academically strong students.

Now lets get down to the social aspect, high school has virtually no bullying, bullying is something little kids do in the K-6 system, not teenagers. No, I wasn't some popular football playing jock who had a cheerleader girlfriend, in fact, I was the opposite. I was the video game playing geek with practically no friends. Sure, I had some "friends" who I would hang out with at school and talk to online, but like most people, I only had maybe one or two real friends. But even within my own group, I was one of the people who just didn't fit in entirely, despite me being one of the two leaders of the group, and the administrator of the group's official message board. We had cliques, of course, like every high school does, there were the jocks, the emos, the stoners, the cheerleaders, the preps, the band geeks, the goths, us gamers, and all other kinds of cliques, and of course there was also individuality. But cliques are nothing like what Hollywood makes it out to be, everyone gets along with everyone else, and everyone has friends in every group, and all groups peacefully socialize with each other.

High school has no bullying? And you deduce this from the fact that your semi-rural high school had no bullying (that you noticed)? There is a (likely literal) mountain of evidence about bullying in high school and how it negatively impacts kids' lives.

There were no gangs, but again, I've never lived in a major city, especially not a poor area of a city. We did have some drugs though, of course there was alcohol and smoking, but never on campus, and those are of course general things teenagers do to rebel (or because they get addicted). There wasn't any peer pressure though, no one ever pressured you into doing drugs, or even really asked you too. Of course, there's the occasional pot, but pretty much no one got into the hard drugs, maybe a few of the stoners did some of the hardcoe stuff like meth, but no one I know (aside from one girl, but she graduated a few years before me). Now then, teen six, sure, there was a lot of that, but most people played it safe and used condems and/or birth control. There were a handful of pregnancies each year, but they brought that upon themselves. As for fashion, let me say that, like most guys, I'm not very adept when it comes to fashion. I would just wear whatever I felt like, and never got made fun of or singled out too much. Sure, there were the preps who always wore Hollister or the emos who generally wore darker clothing, but it certainly wasn't a fashion contest or anything like that.

So there were examples of teenage six / drugs, but it was alright because either you didn't really know these people, or they used protection? You seem to be trying to brush all of this under the rug.

I'd say the school system is pretty damn good, if not the best in the world. Sure, after high school, like most people, I missed it, and still do sometimes. I wish I could go back and be 13 again, a teenager, and start my advlt/teenage life over. But all-in-all I'm glad of the person I am now, I'm not rich or overly successful yet, but I work hard and I'm getting there, since that's what America is all about, hard-work and making your own future. The school system has already vastly improved, my baby brother learned in 3rd grade what they taught me and everyone else in 5th grade. He was learning multiplication and division in like second grade. So yes, I'm glad our school system is making strides to become better, because our young people are the future of this country. Do I think we need to completely overhaul the school system? No. Do I think we need to take extreme stances like metal detectors, teachers beating students, school uniforms, strict dress codes, search and seizures every 2 hours, drug sniffing dogs, or anything like that? No. But I do think we need to fund education more, and with that, I bid adieu.

You obviously have little experience regarding the terribly dilapidated state of the public U.S educational system in urban centers. You don't need to look very hard to find some truly horrible school systems.

If we look purely at the numbers, a high proportion of United States citizens live in urban centers (cities) (source: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm ). As cities tend to have more people in them, there are more students in each school, which means that there is a higher student / teacher ratio, which tends to correlate with low-performing academics. This alone raises the issue that the school system needs to find a way to deal with the student / teacher ratio - either by opening more schools and lowering the student population per school, or finding some way to increase teacher efficiency. Either way costs money.

I consider myself extremely lucky to have spent my K-12 years at a private school versus one of the public school systems here in Michigan. I actually enjoyed my high school years, unlike many of my friends (who went to public school) who had the opposite feelings.

» Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:43 pm

ive come to terms that the system is svckish and that my education depends mostly on myself and some from my teacher.

Honestly, i wish we learned more history in schools but thats just me.

and veeno, why did you get rid of Alizeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

» Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:07 am

I am an extremely intelligent human being, and have been since I was about 13. I can code and design an entire fully functional website in less than an hour, I am informed about almost all political issues and have opinions on them, I study political ideologies and religions in my free time to further my knowledge, I know how the world works both in high school and after it, and I was always a step ahead of most of my peers, and still am today in many cases.

After reading that, I'm almost to annoyed to post much other than the fact that I'm.. annoyed.

Is it really much of a topic to debate about? I don't know anything about how things are for you, but just because something went well in your personal experience doesn't make the entire nation's system to be "fine" or better than the others. I learned barely anything in high school. A lot of it was just from my own experience and life exposure. I basically was "taught" the same things over and over again throughout the years, just in a different way. And hell, I live in a county near DC where the school system is claimed to be one of the best.