Introduction

War, war never changes.

The North American continent now stands at a crossroads more than 200 years following the Great Atomic War of 2077. Various nations have sprung up in the post-war world and each follow their own creed, ideology and national identity. Some seek power and others seek wealth. While some seek religious enlightenment.

Seventeen years following the events of Fallout: New Vegas, the Principality of Solus made contact with the various peoples of North America, bringing word of a great gathering of people's for the purposes of diplomacy. Thus have begun the America Councils.

From the dazzling neon paradise of New Vegas, to the rebuilt streets of Washington D.C., and from the cold arctic north to the warm tropics of Mexico you will take control of one of these great post-apocalyptic nations and lead them to dominance, or defeat. You will use diplomacy, trade, political intrigue, and military might to further your goals. How you choose to lead your people is up to you, and the fate of North America, and the world, lies in the hands of all.

The following rules have been agreed upon:


1. War is always a possibility, ensure however that you are prepared to face the consequences. When attempting to conquer or wage war with other factions take distance and other geographical factors into consideration; for example, a west coast nation wishing to deploy it's navy to the east coast would have too do so by circumnavigating South America which would obviously have consequences for your plans.

Be advised: there are consequences for attempting to 'bite off more than you can chew.' If you attempt aggressive and unheeded expansion: crisis is sure to follow.

2. Do your best to use proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation, it’s easier to read and understand and makes everything look better; in-addition it’s also hard to take delegates seriously that don’t use it.

3. Your representatives are still characters and individuals, give them personalities, backstories, interests, and feeling.

4. Please inform the rest of us if you intend to leave. The current agreed upon time for leaving without notice is one week. Beyond that, if you do not give a reason for your absence your nation is forfeit and will be dealt with accordingly. Either by someone else taking it up, or (more likely) your people becoming conquered by the opportunism of others.

5. Do not be overpowered, a point which cannot be enunciated any further. What constitutes as over-powered behavior will often be determined in these out-of-character threads and will be discussed accordingly; present your case for your actions as see fit.

Faction Listing:

The Empire of the Pitt (Lt. Andronicus)

Midwestern Brotherhood (WONDERWOMBAT)

America (The Enclave)

Sierra Madre (Dalek)

Vegas (Securitron)

The Principality of Solus (Aldin Kris)

Inquisitory of Whitetower (Yes Man FTW)

For nations like the Enclave and the Brotherhood, yes it does, because those factions never had large populations to begin with. And Alaska as well, since they are in the frozen north. I can't imagine the Commonwealth having that large of a population either personally.

For nations like Midwestern Brotherhood. Eh. maybe not. But therein lies the issue, the Midwestern Brotherhood is overpowered because we allow them a larger population and relatively high technology.

Are you gunning for all high-tech nations to be just like the MWBOS? Overpowered?

I know that they aren't high tech, but they were the largest nation in the west by the time of New Vegas.

But, why should that matter? The Legion was fighting the BoS during the time of New Vegas and even cleared out some bunkers. I'm not saying High Tech nations should have larger populations, most already have some sort of equalizer. Brotherhood of Steel was at war with the NCR, The Enclave wasn't that large to begin with, The Midwest has a powerful one with the Barneky Ending.

Populations should be in the millions by now and realistically they would but their smaller for the sake of balance.

Reposted:

snip

It's because of balance. It just wouldn't be fair to other less tech-oriented nations if nations like Solus or the Enclave had as many people as NCR or the Legion. We have to strike a balance there or people will simply get steamrolled because they can't stand up to a horde of Power Armored, Gauss rifle-wielding soldiers. It'd be almost like charging a tank with a pistol. Except there would be a horde of said tanks.

By that logic, someone such as the Principality should be bigger.. They've technically been around one of the longest, since they are the Western Brotherhood of Steel, just with a name change. They've been around since before the Great War. Not only that but they left the NCR without fighting them. We probably should have a rather large population compared to most, assuming we go by my FS and say they threw off the Codex early on. But if we had a massive population it simply wouldn't be fair.

But like Fish said, the rule isn't going to change so there isn't much point in debating it.

No but simply all nations to have a high population.

Its true. I cant change anything now since we are set but I want to implement this system from my short term Nation role playing from the Guild.

Setted Rolls. Essnetially nations will have advantages and disadvantages in a particular category. For example:

NCR could have a large population and good industrial base suffering from a horrible economic downturn, Legion could have infrastracture problems and instability issues and so forth. If want a better idea of what I mean, check the OP of this http://roleplayerguild.com/showthread.php?210810-On-the-Horizon-Order-of-Battleand read the rankings.

But is that practical? It seems like it's way overcomplicated for this sort of RP. One of the things I find so appealing and influential to the Convention series success was it's simplicity. Having it being overcomplicated could be a turn-off for potential newcomers. I would think anyway.

I don't mind having larger populations at all, never did have a problem with it. But if we do, we still need to have the tier system in place for balance reasons. It needs to be relative to what we have now, such as higher-tech factions having a lower population than a Low-tech faction.

Edit* Took a look at the link you posted. Yeah... way too overcomplicated. At least for me anyway.

Sometimes higher tech populations should have a larger population though. The Khan Empire shouldn't have more people than the Midwest simply because they are low tech.

1. It is. Its easy to overcome the problems you have? For example, Legion have crappy navy and economy. Simple. Improve by making deals with other neighboring nations trade and do stuff that will make your economy improve.

2. I just want high-tech nations to be on a better playing field.

Note: Is Japan advance tech because they have 2 mil pop. Are they NCR level?

I understand where you're coming from, I'm not saying it would be unrealistic for such a thing to happen. But it wouldn't be balanced either, which is the more important of the two. You have to sacrifice a bit perhaps, but if you don't, some nations will be extremely over-powered. Which would get bad real fast, as it did with the Midwest that back in the Summits.

You can improve, yes. That sort of has to happen. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in trading anything at all. But there's a line between improving and becoming on par with a high tech nation in terms of technology. I've yet to see that happen. It's like when other nation end up getting the ability to produce Power Armor, the high-tech nations always make better armor in order to stay ahead.

The thing is we already have a level playing field, and what you're suggesting actually goes against that. We've already struck a balance here, if we give high-tech nations a bigger population the size of one of the low tech nations, that completely takes away the one advantage a low tech nation has. Where is the balance in that exactly?

I don't really consider NCR advanced honestly. Not near the Brotherhood or Enclave anyway. I assumed Japan was relatively on par with them in tech, if not a bit more advanced.

Probably in the future in the Councils go ahead for much longer.

I am not asking for a high tech nation to have a 4 mil pop but for them to be at the starting point of a mil population. Let's say 1.2 million.

There are a lot of ways a low tech nation can defeat a high tech nation. Numbers, allies, getting tech from another nation etc the list goes on.

...NCR Med-High. That how I see it.

The Midwest was only overpowered because it seemed that they were never affected by the MLA. I believe it's implied that the Legion was also fighting them.

I would also like to see a return of the MLA.

By default however, the low tech nations will be the weaker faction choice. Taking away their primary advantage (population) leaves the technology factions holding the field almost entirely unopposed.

Basically, low tech factions would have to kiss-up to the high tech factions in order to survive. As opposed to being able to stand on their own.

To be fair, they really aren't in the Barnaky ending either. The MWBOS roflstomps them. The narrator ends saying that he MLA has "no hope."

That might be how you played them, but they really should be mid-tech. Nothing about them really says "Tier 2 faction". They have respectable enough industry and military hardware to be Tier 3, but that's about it. Sort of like the Pitt in that regard.

They're populations will go up with time of course, that's a given.

Like I said, I don't mind that. But it needs to be relative to the other nations for balance purposes. Perhaps a bit more to start of with would have been OK, perhaps like a million or so, but their starting populations shouldn't be as much

Well what you've suggested essentially does away with their numbers advantage, since you want them to be some-what similar. Allies would be circumstantial. As for the tech from another nation, that all depends on exactly what you've got and how much you of it you have. I don't think it's very realistic to say a low tech nation would be able to outfit their entire army with weapons from another nation, not with the industrial capacity we're working with anyway.

They have industry perhaps, but I don't recall them ever producing anything advanced. They had the Ranger patrol armor I suppose, but even their Ranger Combat armor was LAPD riot armor left over from the war.

They can ally with others. Not all High tech nations wiuld be bow down to me.

MLA would be more of a pest on the MW.

They got San Fran, Vault City, Vault 13, and through the years acquired from former surviving US facilities on Cali. They be Med-High.

Indeed. They need to start relative with others.

A low tech nation can be outfitted with PA and energy weapons if they have a high tehc nation and industrious style nation working with them.

That does not mean they are advanced. They got San Fran, Vualt City, Vualt 13, and through the years acquired form US facilities on Cali. They be Med-High.

I'm lost as to what you're arguing, Tiber.

The Legion doesn't have a crappy economy, you don't dictate that and it's never been stated. On the contrary, I'd say it's strong and stable.

They do, by completely outclassing their low-tech rivals in terms of advancement. High-tech has high-tech and the low-tech has numbers.

Precisely. In no universe is the NCR any sort of high-tech, nor anything more than medium.

What is with this sudden opposition to the formula that's worked fine for us forever? I mean, there's balance, why fix it if it's not broken?

Oh sorry about that, That example part was to represnt a different Legion not the one represented this convention. A different example.

Because the IMPERIUM! I was high tech and they had Aurodia by the balls. I dont want to see any high tech nation to suffer that just because of there low population.

No problem, just making sure we got it straight and there we no misconceptions.

They had you on the ground because they were a superpower! Backed by 2 extremely-advanced nations! It wasn't your population, it was because 3 nations, one of which outnumbered an entire continent, attacked you. They would have slaughtered anyone with that combination.

Actually 1 advanced 1 med and 1 low? Solus, Mexico and Britain. Population mattered as Brits invade East, Mexico invaded Philippines and Solus Southwest Aurodia.

Actually it was The Imperium, which was one power made of two nations that together outnumbered an entire continent and Solus a very advanced nation and the Vigil. A superpower that would never run out of soldiers to throw at you and two highly-advanced nations entirely armed with plasma and Gauss weaponry with all their soldiers encased in more than advanced Power Armor.

Population, on your part, played no factor. Nobody could win that.

I'm mainly opposed to it since the largest nation in the west at the time of New Vegas has to have a smaller population than a low tech nation, just because they have a slightly higher tech level.

Referring to the NCR? Or?

I'm tired, so my brain isn't comprehending what you're trying to get across. If you're talking about the NCR, they were smaller than the Legion by a small bit, I think.

Overall, this system is for balance. That's it. Balance. It's a game, games need balance. Sometimes it fits with lore, sometimes it doesn't.

Yes.

I don't believe they were smaller than the Legion at the time.

Anyways should I lower my nation's population? I don't think it would matter much since my nation couldn't invade any nation in America anyways.

Oh, well, like I said it's about balance.

I cold have sworn they were, but like I said, I'm tired.

From 3.5 or 3 million? Yes. Down to something lower than 2.5 I believe.

Edit: I'm off for the night.

Can it be 2.5 million?