I don't often start topics, but I've been brooding over this for a while and I can't really make peace with it.

If we go with the general idea that security/sneak, acrobatics/athletics and merchantile/Speechcraft have been merged, we stealth characters only have 3-4 skills to use, those being stealth, weapon(s) of choice and acro/athletics. Now this honestly worries me. I don't want a character based solely on 3 skills, I believe it seems to thin and weak foundation and honestly not a lot of room for leveling ect. Seeing as mages still have all magic schools (except for one) and the returning enchantment, and warrior types have armorer, weapon(s) of choice, armor skill, acro/athletics and block skill it seems we're sorta missing out :S.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd love someone to put my mind at ease.

There are 18 skills, adn 3 groups, Warrior, Theif, and Mage, that means there will be 6 Sneaky SKills so to speak.

/thread

Don't forget you also have illusion and alchemy

You think I don't know this? But just because they group a certain skill under stealth, doesn't mean a stealth character will actually be using them all

@jjleon I can agree to alchemy, forgot that one, but illusion? I consider that a mage skill, despite it being in the stealth group.

I agree completely.

I don't see how anyone can argue that less skills is ever a good thing; they're not more "fleshed out" and less skills simply means less options of play styles.

Well technically the only ones a Theif would ever use, would be, Scurity/Sneak, and One handed.

To me teh Theif skills are Archery, Illusion, Alchemy, Security/Sneak, Speech/Mercantile, , Acrolttics.

And just because they put a skill under Warrior does not mean a Warrior character will use them all, so your whoe idea of those skills dont fit Stealth so were getting jipped and there are not enough stealth skills, is jsut silly.

The stealth skills most likely are...

alchemy sneak security speacraft mercantile and archery.

Alchemy not illusion as it's a mage skill as far as I know, alchemy is moved from magic to sneak. Archery and sneak are two other and the speechcraft +mercantile one. this leaves two.
Not sure if security is a separate skill and I guess we got a athletic+ acrobatic skill, we also might have light armor replacing one of the two, in that case I hope security is under sneak but I'm afraid athletic+ acrobatic is axed.

Please don't put end conclusions before you actually see my response?

Yea, as I said those will prolly be the ones listed under stealth. BUt who's the most likely to illusion`? in my mind is 100% a mage, a stealth character is already sneaking, it is the mage who has them magicka tocast the spells, and who needs to to compensate for not being sneaky naturally.

And whenever I've played a warrior I've automatically used the warrior'ish skills, just as I've used the stealth skills as a stealth character (aka the stealth, security, marksmanship, acro, athl, short blade, alchemy). It will just feel so empty having to few skills to focus on.

ANd before you say this is a personal issue I have, yea it 100% is, I'm actually worried I wont be able to play a full fletched stealth character

Why 6 skills though I mean didn't they get rid of the classes because of that reason. Stealth characters will probably have a lot of tools at the table especially if the Devs keep in the X10 Sneak Damage that a Dagger can do (Keep it in please) :bowdown:

I think you guys forget that there may be less skills, but perks are added, allowing you to go for a certain path.
And they seem to offer way more cutsomization than skills.
Skills are just something you pick at character ceation, is has actually nothing to do with fun gameplay.

That's why they invented the perk tree.

Yepp, I'm cool with perks, but that doesn't change tha there will be less skills to base your character on.
Why do I now have to choose whether I wan't to jump higher or run faster within one skill, where as with two skills I could specify certain aspects of the two instead. And you don't choose skills at character creation (except for race) at all. And to say it doesn't make fun gameplay simply isn't true, RPG's are by heart based around skills.

I'm sure the perks will cover many different "skills" like silent running, takedowns, acrobatic falling ( parkour landings from high falls ) and so on. Mind you I'm just guessing but from the number of perks I'm sure some will pertain to stealth.

Illusion is now a stealth skill? Not that I doubt you, but can anyone provide a link please? Seems fairly nonsensical to make a school of magic a stealth skill, especially considering when Todd said that alchemy would be the "most magical stealth skill."

Less skills to base your character on doesn't mean you'll have less option in the game to play your character. The only thing is you won't have everything from the very beginning and improve these over time. It will appear as you play.
And as for your example, well, jump higher and run faster are kinda related. That actually make sense to melt them. It's all about your body capacity to defy gravity.
And with the perks you will be able to specify one of the two aspect, just like you choose only one handed weapon and after you can pick dagger, long blade etc. It's the very basis of perks.
RPG are heart based on roleplaying your character. Skills have nothing to do with that. They were invented for paper RPG coupled with a dice system because there was no computer to calculate whether you hit someone at the head or at the leg for example.
And skills continued to exist on computer because on early time, well, games weren't in 3D so you still needed the computer to tell you what part of the body you aimed.

You will, how will you not be able to play as a full fledged stealth character?

Certain skills are not sneakish but are under stealth doe snot mean you wont be able to play a stealth character. I really dont see where you are comign from.

Ok, I want to play an argonian shaman/guerilla. He sneaks to enemy camps and levitates over they're walls. Like all argonians, he specializes in spears. He keeps throwing knives as a back up weapon. He's a smooth talker, but lives off the land, so he has no use for gold or picking chests.

Now tell me how roleplaying is not affected by what skills are available.

How do you know theyre not more fleshed out? If you have a link to share Id honestly like to know.

But from what Ive seen theres things like finishing moves so Id assume there might hopefully be some stealth kill moves. And then theres Perks... Hopefully they modify how we play like maybe a Perk that makes a ranged bow kill(if its an insta headshot) silent and not alert others, or maybe a Perk to extend how many uses we get out of a Poison before needing to reapply. Stuff like that, but that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

Incorrect, alchemy was moved to thieves, but not illusion. Illusion is still part of the magical schools, with enchanting making a come back to replace the lost mysticism.

Thanks for clearing this up, Orzorn. What he said scared and confused me.

Well, you know, I roleplay my COD character. I don't see any skills to choose from in the solo gameplay. You choose what you do, you can simply forbid yourself to use whatever weapon you find not suitable for your character. Now, skills are really helpful to guide, indeed. But they are not indispensable.
I'd actually like skills to be near noticeable. They could for example tell how much you can carry, if you have good balance, well, I'd say: unlock special moves, like stances, jumps etc. That's it.
But that they decide if I slammed that guy right between the two eyes or if I missed it (Morrowind style)? No please. I'd like my own reflexes as a player to tell this. Again, they should have a tiny influence like how many seconds can you hold still while aiming with your bow and stuff.
But they are not the core of roleplay.
You are.

Athletics choose you, you have to use it, its a joke.

Sneak and Security should be seperate.
An Archer sneaks around but that does not directly relate to picking locks.

It's not. Illusion is still under the mage. The Thief skills will most likely be Alchemy, sneak, athletics,speechcraft, light armor and "I don't know"



No need for a security skill when you have the minigame :celebration: