First of all, I'm hugely excited for Doom 4 (I'm going to call it Doom 4 in this thread for the sake of clarity). I'm a huge fan of the games and the first two are still ranked among my favourite games of all time. I have only recently (in the past few months) got back into the Doom games; before that I hadn't played them since I was a kid and the games were relatively new.
Admittedly, I have yet to play Doom 3, though I have seen plenty of walkthroughs of the game and I am very familiar with what the game is all about. It has never been a game that looked exciting enough for me to actually play it, but with the knowledge that Doom 4 is a real thing, I'm going make sure that I've played it before the release of Doom 4 itself.


Things I don't like about Doom 3

Though I haven't actually had first-hand experience of playing Doom 3, I do have opinions and observations that I'd like to talk about. Before I do, I'd just like to point out that I'm not trashing the game in any way, shape or form; I'm simply talking about some of the ways in which Doom 3 was designed that I'd like to see reconsidered for Doom 4.
So here are some of the things which don't appeal to me about the game:

1) It seems very slow-paced compared to that of the first two games.
The dimensions of the player and enemies relative to the dimsnesions of the sorroundings make for a claustrophobic experience. There's a lack of space for movement compared to Doom 1 and Doom 2, and that lack of space makes for combat which is focused more around standing still and shooting, as opposed to moving around and shooting. In Dooms 1 and 2, movement was a big deal when it came to travelling around hordes of enemies and making sure to strafe out of the way of incoming shots, but that experience seems to be severely diminished in Doom 3.
Due to the lack of space, there seem to be less enemies in each space during the average encounter, and less space to move anywhere but backwards. The gameplay seems to revolve more around the idea of: 'Move foward. See enemy. Stand still and shoot the enemy. Move forward', as opposed to: 'Move forward. See enemies. Make use of the space in the area to run around the enemies. Kill enemies. Move onto next area'.
Don't get me wrong, a claustrophobic experience is not in itself a bad thing; claustrophobia lends well to games that are about horror and a sense of being trapped. However, I don't feel that the original Doom games were ever anything to do with these things. More importantly, I feel that the things which the original Doom games were about are actually in direct contrast to the things which make for a typical claustrophobic horror experience.

If there were to be spin-off titles for Doom, then I feel a game like Doom 3 - where the overall feel is remarkably different - would be more appropriate. Spin-off titles could fill unique niches while retaining the canonical aspect of the franchise.
Another reason for the slow pace of the game is the base movement speed being very low. This of course relates directly to the previously discussed aspect of the game, which was the dimsnesions of the player vs the dimensions of the environment.
When movement is slow, encounters come down more to killing your enemy before they can kill you where you stand. When movement is fast, encounters come down to killing and moving all at the same time. This is by no means something that's completely unique to the first two Doom games, but it is something which makes them play the way they do.

2) It lacks the fantasy/otherworldly undertones that were ever-present in the first two games.
Due to the greatly improved graphical fidelity in Doom 3, it felt like an opportunity to bring the otherwordly artwork and environments to life; to use the extra geometry, detail and lighting to emphasise the different textures and structures that we might see in a hellish, unworldly, Doom-like environment.
Instead, it feels like almost every environment consists of mostly metal and, well... metal. Am I the only one who feels this way? It's just something that doesn't appeal to me about Doom 3.
It doesn't feel so much like you're travelling around various unique, overtaken-by-hell environments.
Also, everything is so dark - like, all the time. Of course, this lends to the idea of creating a claustrophobic horror envinroment, but that's not how I think Doom should be designed.

3) The enemies aren't recognisable.
The designs of the enemies were changed so much that most of them were barely recognisable. The original designs were icnoc, and I would have thought that the best option for Doom 3 would have been to improve on the designs in a way which maintained the overall look and design. Instead, it felt like a set of completely new enemies.
I fully expect a modernization and improvement in design for the enemies, however I do not expect for the enemies to become unrecognizable in the process.


OK, so here are the don'ts for Doom 4:

1) Don't 'modernize' the game - with features like forced lowering of weapons while sprinting - if the inclusion of those features come at the expense of the things which made Doom play like Doom.
I don't want to have to sacrifice my ability to shoot just so that I can move at top speed. One of the cool things about Doom was the ability to sprint and maintain full shooting ability at the same time. Also, strafing speed wasn't slowed down. Sprint/lowered weapons wouldn't actually add anything to the game, it would only take away from what we could already do, slowing down gameplay in the process.

2) Don't hold the players' hands throughout the game.
Hand-holding is a common part of modern game design philosophy and I'm hoping Doom 4 doesn't do too much of this. If you are going to tell me where to go all the time and you're not going to give me multiple ways of getting there, then there's no room for exploration; no room for discovering things on my own.
A better thing to do would be to give the player multiple ways of traversing maps, but to make sure there are plenty of visual cues and recognisable places that the player can use to get a sense of where they are in relation to their environment at any given moment. Just don't make things linear for the sake of making things easy.

3) Don't go overboard with changes in art design.
I think it's important that we are still able to recognise the returning weapons and enemies, and I think it's important that we still feel we're playing in the same universe that we were in with the original games.


Do's for Doom 4:

1) Do make the game fast paced.
Include a fast base movement speed, raised weapons when sprinting, and large maps with lots of space to move around so that I'm not confined to one spot while shooting my enemies.

2) Do base the game around open environments. No forced linearity.
Give us plenty of rooms to explore, and plenty of routes to the places we'll eventually have to find our way to.
Make it so we often have to venture into the wild to find the BFG and other weapons!

3) Do flesh out on the story.
Doom 3 already set out on this path, and I'd like to see it continued with Doom 4.

4) Include an awesome soundtrack.
Music music music!

5) Do include new features which don't take away from the fast paced, action oriented gameplay.
Any awesome sequel will have new features which work to push the game into new territory without taking anything away from what made the previous game/s great, and Doom 4 shouldn't be any different.

6) Update the weapon sandbox.
Give us plenty of new weapons - weapons weapons and more weapons. And make sure they all serve a purpose other than to simply look different from each other.

7) Do include puzzle aspects.
The puzzle aspects of Doom were great, but they were limited. It was mostly about finding keys and doors. Now would be a great time to really flesh out the puzzle side of Doom. It's just something else that lends to the exploration side of the game, and it should be a major factor in Doom 4.

8) Don't base the entire game around survival horror type gameplay.
Save it for niche missions if it's going to be a part of the game at all. For example, maybe create a slowed down, dark, horrifying mission somewhere in the middle of the game where the particular enemies we encounter are the kind that creep up on us in the dark and make us jump. It would be a way to incorporate some variety into the game without limiting the entire experience to action-lacking gameplay.


So those are my thoughts on how Doom 4 should be designed. What are your hopes for the future of Doom?

Slower pace is something everyone should be prepared, because it is not a 100% PC game anymore, but they'll need to focus on consoles simultaneously if they want to make a successful AAA game and regain the millions they've invested in this new Doom. And to adapt the gameplay for joysticks it needs to be slower because controllers can't handle a super fast gameplay like keyboard and mouse. I think it will have faster pace compared to other current FPS, but a slower pace than classic Doom(you won't run faster than a rocked missile anymore I think).

Don't forget that in D1-2 you barely needed to aim. It doesn't matter if the enemy is above or below you, you can shot straight and you'll hit the enemy. Take as an example a flying cacodemon, you don't even need to see it, if you know there's one above you, just shot and the bullets will take a fly until it, the same can be said to demons that are on a lower platform than yours, just shoot straight and the bullet will seek them down. Due to this mechanic + overpowered weapons, the focus of classic Doom is not to aim, but evade the enemies projectiles. Such mechanic won't work in a modern game that claims itself AAA, you'll need to focus on aiming because bullets don't seek enemies on their own.

Other thing is as a modern game, it will probably have a better AI, so enemies can take different positions constantly instead of just stop in front of yours and shot their projectiles.

As a modern realistc game, it needs to have realistc scenarios, D2 took place on Earth but it felt like Doom 1 Mars because they decided to make the levels abstract, but abstract levels don't work in a modern realistc Doom game that takes place on Mars or Earth, it would have to deliver a realist futuristic city scenario on Earth, because abstract levels wouldn't fit without the player finding it weird, it is the same as putting an old CGI in an old movie(older movie CGI, the CGIs don't feel like they belong to that environment). At maximum, only in the stage taken place in hell(if this new Doom happens in hell in some point of the game) will allow abstraction because it is the f1ck1ng hell.

Unfortunately, making a modern Doom just like D1-2 but with id tech 5 graphics would make this game to have the feeling of an indie game, and will never be taken seriously by the current gaming audience. Just look at Serious Sam 3, it looks just a fun game, but if is far from being a top shooter that could brand a generation. I don't want to look at Doom and just see a Serious Sam 3 set in the future. ID could do some map editor that would allow players to make D1-D2 like mods.

I disagree with the limited aiming choice of its time this ip is a product of its times their ancestors had coke and disco kreators of said ip had hair rock etc and their understanding of what thou wilt shall be the whole of law made the ip connect leave the story to the hungry design choices to the (enemy placement if you will) to the players (and yes fatality wombat etc) the most important part the code to the technopriests nad code masters ofcourse by the way the story is solid as is all it needs to be is cheesy over nine thousand and also enemies and npcs should be modeled after tvtropes character description nothing but positive karma on my end gentlemen

I totally get that. I'm well aware that things have to be done in ways that will work on both PC and console, but I don't think that means that Doom 4 has to be as slow as Doom 3. One of the things you're talking about here is difference in ability to aim fast with mouse (on PC) and with controllers on consoles. One of the ways that games can be made to accommodate such a thing without a decrease in game speed is to increase the aim assist. If we look at Halo - an incredibly well received and well executed console shooter - the strafing and base movement aren't exactly as slow as what we find in modern military shooters, such as Call of Duty, yet console controllers can handle the gameplay just fine because the aim assist and bullet magnetism are more exaggerated than they would be on a PC version. So I don't think that an FPS game absolutely has to be as slow as Doom 3 in order to work on consoles.
I agree with what you said about how Doom 4 will probably be faster than Doom 3, but slower than the first two games. I'd be totally fine with this, as long as the gameplay is still fast and doesn't sacrifice things which are awesome about the first two games.

A strong focus on evasive manoeuvres (strafing) and a strong focus on shooting accuracy are not mutually exclusive. Again, Halo is a great example of a console shooter which puts an emphasis on the combination of these things, as opposed to the trade-off between them. There's absolutely no reason that the game has to be limited to narrow hallway encounters, and paused movement just to accommodate accurate shooting. What it does mean is that if we are to have shooting that requires more accuracy than in the first two games - and I believe we should, after all, we now have to aim up and down in order to shoot higher or lower enemies - then the strafing and base speed shouldn't be quite as fast as in those games, and there will probably be a need for increased aim-assist. It doesn't mean that the game has to be severely limited.

Yeah. This is one of the ways in which Doom 4 can take Doom gameplay to the next level.

I think you have probably misunderstood what it is I'm asking for with regard to Doom 4. I'm not asking that the environments don't look accurate to what they're supposed to be, I'm asking they aren't made to be dark, dull and lacking in variety. I feel like there is an extreme lack of variety in the colours, textures and environments in Doom 3. It's like things only start to actually look different when you get to the Hell level, and then it goes back to normal.
Due to the fact that these man-made environments have been taken over by hell, I think there is room for improvement in Doom 3 in really making the enviroments feel like they've been taken over by such a dark and powerful force.
I'd like there to be a feeling of real hellishness in the air - a real overwhelming feeling of hellishness.

I haven't actually played nor seen videos of the Serious Sam 3 game so I'm not really aware of what the situation is around the game, but are you sure that it is those reasons you've given that the game was unsuccessful?
Also, I'm not hoping for Doom 1 with id tech 5 graphics. I'm hoping that the things which made it so fun are kept intact as new features are added. Two of those things would be hellish or the overtaken-by-hell feeling and fast action based gameplay.
Doesn't matter if the game isn't as fast as Doom 1, but it shouldn't be slow and it shouldn't be linear.

Serious Sam is a goofy game, where a Badass character that never loses his badass look and glasses. yes it has no compromise in being a serious game, but yet it was one of the reasons the game bombed. People nowadays want to see a more serious, realistic feel from shooters. At the same time shooters must evolve getting some RPG elements, like ability progresion(usually futuristic shooters nowadays provide high tech suits that give the characters superhuman abilities and allow the learning of new abilities through the game), upgradable weapons, etc...

Yes I think taking the Halo approach to successfully consolize DOOM is a good idea.

Doom doesn't have to sacrifice it's core of Speed/maneuverability/firepower to appeal to a console market. Titanfall is a very, very fast game. It works fine on consoles. It doesn't need to include RPG elements to be successful, either. You use Halo as an example, but that game doesn't have any RPG elements. It doesn't need to have much of a story, either. Dark Souls doesn't have a story, that game is extremely popular.

What I'm trying to say is, there isn't some "modern" formula, or some laundry list of features for a game to be popular. While I agree that the new Doom can't just be a reskinned Doom 1/2, it also needs to hold close to what makes it fun in the first place... Doom is an arcade/action FPS at it's core, and diluting that with modern shooter buzzwords will do nothing but make it harder to differentiate Doom from other FPSs in an already over-saturated market.

Titanfall at least on XBOX ONE has almost the same feeling-pace as Halo. It all says how Halo has influenced FPS on consoles. Playing Halo 4 and TF multiplayer I have almost the same feeling. It is something Sony was never capable of reproducing, juts see how Killzone gameplay svcks compared to Halo.