From what I've seen on these forums, it seems to be taken for granted that not only is "slavery" of androids evil, but that it's anologous to enslaving actual humans. Further, and even more baffling to me, there seems to be a consensus that the "android situation" should be a high priority, even the focus of the main questline. Presumably the apex of said questline would involve destroying the evil, evil Institute.

That entire premise is just asinine. Let's just grant, for the sake of argument, that "enslaving" androids is super, super evil. Are the rights of sentient toasters really something that should be a high priority for large, organized groups of people? Keep in mind this isn't a civilized region where agriculture, commerce, and security are all firmly established. The setting of Fallout is a wasteland where finding food and water is a really serious challenge. At least in Bethesda's Fallout, there isn't a single farm, ranch, or food-dispenser to be found as far as the eye can see. There are no safe, patrolled roads from location to location. There is no research and development* to be found. Can a large, organized group of well-intentioned people really find no cause more worthy of their time? There are actual human slaves belonging to various factions, and those factions are (presumably) less powerful than the highly advanced Institute. If you want to fight the good fight, wouldn't it be a better idea to target organizations that enslave actual humans first? If not because organic, genuine people are a higher priority, than at least because the ones enslaving them are easier targets?

*Except from the factions that inevitably end up being the enemies. The Lone Wanderer spent the majority of his time breaking or blowing up highly advanced, practical technologies.

At one point did you know what slaver groups from Europe, Arabia and North Africa did to justify enslaving people in southern Africa? They would say that the tribes were no better then beasts, likening the capturing and enslaving to that of domesticating a horse or a cow. Now look at your toaster anology, see the similarity?

From what we've seen androids are more then just "some machine" they are capable of sentience and self-awareness as well as morality. Given that the railroad is an actual group means that it wasn't some rare case with the android in fallout 3.

We're not putting freeing "sentient toasters" as you put it over freeing humans, this is not a case of "Ignore one group of people over another" the whole POINT of the people against the slavery of Androids is slavery in general.

It's NOT a case of "Oh you want rights for x so that must mean you don't care about y" which you're trying to make it into, it's not one of those cases.

I'm hoping this whole "androids are people too!" plot isn't the main questline as it's been far too overdone in other mediums. Although in some cases I find it is done well in the sense it's not completely black and white as you would expect. However, this is Bethesda so I don't doubt the plot could very well end up one sided and we'll be the liberator of the android people.

Regardless of how they go about the plot, I think it's safe to say the androids will have a significant role in the game in some way or form. They're unique to Boston because of the Institute after all. Bethesda isn't going to waste this opportunity to do something with them in their prime setting.

Anyway, the Railroad are seemingly for the freedom of slaves, be they human or android. From their perspective, they likely see them both as equal, because you know, they're fighting for their rights and all in not being slaves. With that, I don't think they see one being more important than the other.

Slavery is wrong no matter who you're enslaving. Synthetic humans, actual humans, Ghouls, it doesn't matter. My Lone Wanderer cared just as much for the poor slaves of Paradise Falls (she and Cross cleared that place out pronto) as she did for Harkness. She cared for Gob so she was nice to him and would buy from him more than she really should or needed.

It's not a case of “Oh, we only care about GroupA, so GroupsB-Z can just go die.” It's seeing that Group A is suffering unjustly and we kind of need to do something about it.

The more I think on it, the more I'm convinced that yes, we'll be doing the “LET FREEDOM RING FOR THE SYNTHETIC PEOPLE” plot.

If they are sentient AIs then a case can be made for that being the equivalent to human slavery, there is already established lore for AIs in fallout but most have been like President Eden in non-humanoid form.

Most robots, toasters etc in fallout, fall in the Virtual Intelligence category and cannot really be considered to be equivalent to human slavery.

I expect the majority of Institute android synths to be VIs rather than AI and therefore while they may mimic being sentient, they are still an artificial creation, I assume Harkness was created as an AI because it made him (and those like him) better able to hunt Synths through interaction with human groups and higher cognitive abilities.

Eh. Sentient machines I have no qualms with enslaving. They're no better then a Mister Handy or a Protectron, after all.

A Sapient machine, on the other hand...

No, it wouldn't be a priority for the Capital Wasteland at all. As for the Boston Wasteland, we don't have enough information yet to put any of it into perspective yet. We don't know what else is going on.

Getting involved with the android/Institute conflict may very well be a priority for the player character due to reasons that have nothing to do with the the conflict itself. What if the player character desperately needs some advanced technology and the only two potential sources of the technology is the androids and the Institute? Helping one faction or the other may be the only means to acquire it regardless of the ethics of android slavery.

Thing is, with bots like Mr. Handy, they weren't programmed to think about anything but how to best serve their master/mistress. A synthetic human IS programmed to think logically, to reason, to have emotions. For all intents and purposes, Harkness *IS* a human.

True, and that'd be very cool. We're only in it because of the tech, not the ethics of enslaving Synths.

I'd rather have it that you can join the institute and do a questline to make it so slavery in general is abolished in it. That would be an interesting way to solve it.

Consider the slaver vs slave liberator conflict was already established in 3, combined with the libiration war undertone, a war where America wanted freedom from the British, its not to far fetched.

I can just imagine what The Toaster from OWB would have to say on this topic.

Ugh, too much freedom crap! I swear it almost makes me want to start oppressing something.

I think the toaster would probably question the worth of the androids itself compared to the toaster people, and would likely burn the world of all who aren't toasters as a result. Damn toaster elitist these days.

Yeah he wasn't very nice to the "lesser appliances"...

America wasn't slaves to the crown, the colonies rebelled because we weren't represented in parliament. This case would be more akin to the Demerara slave rebellion of 1823.

It kind of is one of those cases. Part of the point of being in a post-apocalyptic setting is that resources and manpower are limited. If you're putting a large portion of your resources and man hours towards Goal A, you can't spend those same hours and resources towards Goal B or Goal C. Maybe the food and water situations have been handled reasonably well in Boston, but if the setting is anything like D.C., freeing the toasters really shouldn't be on the agenda.

Maybe I'm coming across as too callous to the toasters. I'm not suggesting they should be enslaved. In truth, it seems like a better idea to just make robots without the possibility of consciousness both from an ethical standpoint as well as a practical one (they won't run away). What I'm suggesting is that in the grand scheme of things, there are more important issues, and if the main quest requires me to free the toasters I'm going to be annoyed about it. Or, even worse, the idea that people keep tossing around that the protagonist secretly -is- a toaster.

It really isn't one of those cases, you're just trying to make it into one to shut down the people who support the railroad.

The key word is not slavery but freedom, the reasons might be diffrent, but both is about seeking freedom of some kind, America wanted to be free to be its own nation, slaves wants to be free to control there own lifes.

Female android six slave.

I'm in.

People that support "rights" for machines are the people that will ruin this world in the near future. Do me a favour and don't breed.

This guy trying to make a hot thread...

gonna name her plug n play?

Hey you know who used logic like that? Generally people in favor of genocide and racism! Literally the same logic that people who were against abolishing slavery and against the civil rights movement, Nazis, white supremacist groups and various other groups who are in favor of killing and oppressing someone else because they're different used. Do yourself a favor, don't use that logic.

I shot that stupid rat from railroad right in the face when she started lecturing me on freedom for machines. Then shot all her limbs off.

You realise this is an hypothetical, fantasy situation, don't you?

No, of course you don't.