didnt WOTLK in wow offer Death Knights to those ppl who bought it?

didnt EQ2 offer Freebloods to those ppl who bought it?

and many other games have offered races in their expansions and mmo's to the players who bought them, seriously stop whining about it already and reach in to your pocket and pull out an additional 20 dollahs, the CE edition had to offer SOMETHING to make it worthy of being purchased and I totally agree with the Imperial army being offered.

the IMPERIAL ARMY has many different races in it, it has Dunmers it has Bretons it has Nords etc etc, you are not buying an imperial race as such, you are buying the right to join the imperial army which basically allows you to create ANY RACE character in ANY FACTION, THIS is what the CE reads. please stop spazzing about it now.

Personally I love being a wood elf and have ALWAYS played a wood elf and NOW I can play a wood elf and join the faction of my choice. THIS IS A GOOD THING

Naw you got it wrong brah.

The Imperial edition lets your play an Imperial in any alliance, the collector bonus lets your play any race in any alliance.

So it would have been ok for WoW to come out back in 2004 and only let you play an Orc if you bought the collector's edition?

You're talking about expansion packs here not the base game. I'm actually not even that mad about it, but having a game that is $60, then $15 a month, THEN has a cash shop, THEN restricts a race to only a Collector's edition just seems like a cash grab.

Actually, I have to agree with the "nay-sayers" on this one. I preordered way back when it first became available. I was hyped, and I was one of the most staunch defenders of the Sub-fee, of also paying of LIVE/PSN, of the in-game store for cosmetic changes, etc.

But the Imperial Edition got announced and... yeah. I'm not a fan at all. It probably wouldn't be so bad except I feel cheated and lied to.

I used to be pretty damn excited for this game, but as more and more info was released, that hype started to roll back a bit. I was still ready for June to hit, but not as much as three months ago. So, I went in and cancelled my preorder last night, and I put all of the money on Destiny. I'll probably still pick up TESO, but it'll be at least 6mo. to a year after when I do finally purchase it.

That's just my opinion.

They backtracked on the Cash Shop talk over a year ago, but I suppose we'll see. As far as they have said it's just services like name change, possibly faction swap now and other customer related services nothing like the Cartel Market in Swtor or WoW budding store of mounts, or the bang of mmos the craptastic Guild wars 2 store.

I never said they would be added. I said that by the definition you give they COULD be and you would defend them being added using the definition you use for defending the IE addition.

The devs dont know anythng abut this game. They made it but the money people are calling the shots, THAT mush IS NOT ambiguous. Or the developers were lying all along but I will at least give them the benefit of some doubt. But that is also a growing trend, one group of a company can point fingers at another.

But it is clear in this one and with watching all the 'developer' Q & A sessions and comments that they are clearly taking their cues from the marketing people.

So developers could have really made a 'perfect' game (they didnt) but even if they did the marketing people could completely ruin in with cash grab mentality.

So that is why I am firmly convinced this game will be free to play or buy to play much sooner than later because marketing people are running the show and cash shops make much more than subs ever will. And it wont take long for everyone to see this is a cash shop game with the balls to also (force charge)charge a subscription price. So once everyone defects they will make the switch much like Swotor did and hope they can convince people to come back. They will of course offer the subscription option which will in essence make the game completely unchanged as to what it was at release. But it will not be under the guise of a full subscription game and they can sell anything in the store they want and people who complain will have less ammo because theyre not 'forced' to pay a subscription.

Its a fee market and they can do what they want. I am just surprised so many people are not getting it.

If ESO turns out to be a complete "failure", in terms of any GAMING aspects of expectation as in it fails to deliver a majority of the things one would expect from an MMO much less a AAA one. And people leave in droves disgusted and think it forever tarnished the legacy of the ES franchise. BUT (and its a big but) made half a BILLION dollars in sales. Who loses out? And if that is the case, what is to stop companies from continuing to do it? its 5+ years after Warhammer and AOC failed miserably doing what I just described. Now I cant comment on whether that will happen to ESO or not. I am just putting it out there. Or even if it is just 'mediocre'?

When consumers continue to reward mediocrity and failure by spending that much money it sets a precedent as well. You cant really blame gaming companies from taking advantage of that. But sooner or later you would think gamers would smarten up. They havent for as long as I have been around, and thats why we continue to see companies do what theyre doing, and still having people defending them.

Thats not quite correct.

Pre-Order ANY version and you can roll any race on any faction.

The Imperial Edition/CE allows access to the Imperial Race which can belong to any faction.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial They've been a playable race since 2002, why are there still people who don't understand this and don't even bother to check? You don't need the CE to roll any race in any faction, it's a general pre-order bonus. Why did you buy the CE if you have no clue what it actually contains? The amount of misinformation on this forum is astonishing.

To answer your question, WOTLK was an expansion with new land, dungeons, quests etc. it can't be compared to a single race behind a paywall (it's 34 dollars for some of us, btw).

Imperial on sale is the race. Along with it's skill line for racials (which I can't see being cosmetic).

The Explorer pack is pre-order and allows you to use any of the 9 free races with any of the 3 factions.

WotLK offered Deathknights as part of an expansion.

Freebloods were as you said a sold race in a game that had been released for 6 years. It too raised hell on release.

The Imperial race is being sold as Day 1 on disk DLC. It will be in the files of whoever buys the game with whichever version, only being unlocked if you pay additional cash. This is something that was developed with the core game prior to release that is not being sold with the game for the sole purpose of extracting additional money from it's playerbase. This while also charging you full price for the game and an ongoing monthly subscription as well as any future expansions. The main attraction of (and their own reasoning for using) the subcription model is to avoid nickel and diming of other payment methods.

I have no interest in telling people how to spend their money, if you like this feel free to splurge, but for me this raises big questions about what lies down the road for this game and the message being sent if I was to jump in so quickly, especially when other companies see this and follow suit. This isn't the first concern I have had but I cannot speak about the rest (none of which would have stopped me purchasing the game, hell I was actually looking forward to it up until yesterday). This was merely the one that not only pushed me back onto the fence but has me perched perilously close to falling off it the other way.

Before people attack me...I can easily afford the physical box imperial edition, I do work, and no I don't feel I deserve everything. I do however not expect to be treated with contempt as a walking wallet to be emptied.

Not to nitpick but ANY preorder gains that ability:

I can completely understand the hate, especially when they said "no pay gates".

But.

They clearly want to provide something meaningful in a CE. The statue and artbook is awesome for physical items, but to make the digital edition worthwhile they need something awesome there too. I'm betting you'll see a press release along the lines of: "Imperial Edition owners can stand out from the crowd with the Imperial race. We stand by our promise that no in-game content will be locked behind pay walls, but the Imperial race is largely cosmetic and does not provide access to any content that is unreachable by players of any other race."

We already knew that the last comment was out the window since cosmetic changes would be included in the cash shop. However, a race isn't exactly a cosmetic option which would exclude it from the cash shop. But, since they were ambiguous (or straight out lying, something they wouldn't admit) about this entire thing we can't know for sure.
There is a chance they "simply" changed their minds.
If they were ambiguous, then you should always expect the worst outcome possible. (this is the most probable explanation in their defense)
If they were lying, then you shouldn't trust anything they say. (something they'll never admit)
If they simply changed their minds, then nothing they say is to be taken for granted.
Either case, the only thing it boils down to is that ZOS comments aren't to be trusted. They have really messed it up and I doubt we'll get an explanation tbh.

From Zenimax I would bet you will get silence. Lots of silence and no acknowledgement of any issues.

If they announce Imperials are cosmetic those who purchased the game would merely replace those upset now with those who have paid money. The have for many damaged their credability (something that will take time, if ever to be repaired) they would financially be best served plowing ahead rather than angered another load of people. This may change for the console release if things don't go as well as they'd liked for PC but I wouldn't count on it, these decisions are not made last minute.

Cosmetics are cosmetics. No one expects that if they had a cash store that cosmetics wouldnt be sold. This is WAY beyond cosmetics. I mean the CE ALSO includes COSMETIC Imperial armor. Why not just stop there? So they give everything BUT the Imperial race/class. Would people still buy the CE? Probably. But they made sure that the free to play and pay to win mentality people bought it. The fact they have release NOTHING at all about it shows theyre using peoples thoughts and ideas against them. Theyre hoping the people who want the Imperial to be 'better' think that. Theyre also hoping the people who think they wouldnt be that blatant expect it to be 'just' another race/class. basically theyre letting people jump to their own conclusions. So more expecting people to buy completely unknown items. Some people would have bought it regardless. Which is why I said why not just stop with the mount, the rings, the cosmetic armor, the pets, even throw in the ability to craft the imperial armor as well. The fact that they (and yes I will use this term because no one else has but it is actually correct to use it here) 'jumped the shark' and put the race/class in as well makes their intentions were very apparent.

The mount and the ability to craft Imperial armor would be acceptable perks as a pre order. As long as the mount is the same speed or slower than in game mounts. Which it is. I can look past how much effort it takes to get amount in this game. Because mounts have been accepted parts of pre orders before. Enough to make them grandfathered in and 'fair'. While they can technically be seen as something beyond 'special' most people can live with that.

I think it hurts them in the end. As in it costs them money. I know a few people who will not be buying the game now. But they sold just as many copies of he CE as they would have anyway IMO, had they offered what I said, everything BUT the Imperial class/race. They need to sell 3 CEs for every person who decided not to buy the game at all after this. I doubt they convinced 3 times as many people to spend more for that class than they pushed off the other side of the fence on whether to buy the game or not. Conjecture really but if even a thousand people decided not to buy the game because of this it would take 3000 people who were just going to buy the 'standard' pre order to upgrade to the IE one, just to break even. But it also goes beyond that, they lose people who are potential future customers in their cash shop. I am sure the weighed those risk reward factors as well, and figured the target audience bought in the first place theyre also more likely to spend i the future.

Its wrong on a lot of levels and that is why there are so many people upset, and how so many people can try and defend it. because there is a slight grey area in some peoples minds. But most if you asked them honestly would say it isnt the 'right' thing to do based on all the circumstances.

yup, good point Nacko. Next time will probably charge extra for entire faction. But hey - it's "cosmetic" only, isn't it?

The Imperial Race discussion threads are being locked left and right, mostly I assume to "disorderly" conduct, given that they haven't been violating any other forum rules. So let's try and keep this orderly.

My specific concern is with Matt Firor's promise to avoid monetization in TES:O. From back in August:

"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play."

"Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being 'monetized' in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days," he added. "The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."
Pulled from the full article "Can Elder Scrolls Online Live WIth a Subscription Fee" on US GAMER(dot)net

IMO, it seems like ZOS couldn't even make it to launch before violating this. The missing TES race, as premium content, on Day 1? (or day -5 with early access?)

Thoughts?

I've seen this exact thread at least 10 times already.

I'm thrilled about it. Any race/any alliance lets me play with my friends in another alliance without being forced to pick a race I didn't want. Best feature ever in my book.

If the CE hadn't had anything good, everyone would have complained that the CE svcked and no one would have bought it.

The other option was to release a good CE and anger the folks who want everything for free.

I'm glad ZOS chose the later so people who are excited about their game can spend a little extra for some cool goodies.

Yes, its the money people who make the shots, the ones who bankrolled Skyrim Fallout 3 and Oblivion. They know that an quality product from an know franchise will sell well, they know Fallout 4 and TES 6 will outsell the previous game in the series.

In short had they been after short term profit they had launched new Fallout and TES games every second year Battlefield style, it could even work.

As for sub versus F2P, F2P in average bring in $3.8 month from customers over $10-15 for subscription, most F2P players are pretty causal and hardly use money.

However F2P get more players, and its easy to try the game. Now here is an major diference between Star Wars, Lord of the ring and TES, the two first has many hundred million fans, an free to play game will bring inn lots of people who are not hardcoe gamers, more in the candy crunch and angry bird league. Some of them will love the game and spend plenty of money.

For them F2P might well bring in more money.

TES has an magnitude less fans, around 25 millions, this is the target audience, yes you get more, you get people who are looking for an new MMO, but did not like single player Skyrim, plenty of PS4/ One player looking for any MMO or RPG. Still its an limited number, going F2P will not increase this number.

On the other hand you have idiotic greed, might be people living in their own fantasy world who believe you can combine Sub and P2W for more money, it might work, 2-3 months.
I have run my own company, first rule if you have an limited customer base: do not screw your customers hard. I was an independent software developer. Sometime customers was in an hurry, say an an bank had changed the interface so now the payment system was down and I needed to fix the webshop. Yes I could had demanded $10.000 for the work as they was down. I did not I billed them $1000 so they came back.

Yes the 1000 was still a ripoff for a couple hours work, but it was priority. On the other hand if your customers is tourist you want to rip the off hard as you never see them again.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/pre-order-reactions/

Free? FREE?

Me to, I advice people to not buy the digital imperial version unless imperial is you favorite race, you can always buy it later an $20 for an horse and a pet is an ripoff.

If lots of people buy it we will get far more of this.

That will not end well, in short the largest marked for ESO is probably consoles as they have a lack of games. If the pc players are pissed and already leaving that sale will flop no matter how large the advertising budget is.

If the CK contained an mount a pet, perhaps an outfit or two, nobody would complain, the people who always buy CK would buy anyway, yes the digital version might sell less but again other like me would probably buy it as money is not an issue.

Again the issue here is putting an race behind a paywall, in an premium game, even if they promised they would not do it.

What is next an dungeon or an quest line? No it don't contains items stronger than else in the game so its not new content, an race is content.
Only way to not see it as content is content who make you stronger in endgame.