Greetings to everyone. Just want to start by saying that I'm pretty pumped for Fallout 4, been a long time fan of the series actually. I only started with Fallout Tactics though, and had to go back to F1+2! Good times.

But in saying that, I do have some, worries I suppose about Fallout 4. Nothing particularly serious I suppose, but I guess things I hope to have seen improved from previous titles, to just give F4 that extra oomph that would for me personally help give that "complete Fallout experience".

Obviously I'm not really expecting much to happen since it's basically coming up on release. Also perhaps some of my concerns are not warranted, I've kept myself from trying to view too much material since I want to give myself a nice clean Fallout 4 experience when it comes out! But even so, I thought I'd share some things on my mind, and I was more curious to know if other people felt the same, or had any small grievances with previous Fallout titles that they would liked to have seen optimized here.

Again. I'm not hating on F4 or Bethesda, love their work. I'm not expecting miracles. And my 'concerns' are somewhat superfluous things, but they were still enough to get me here! So here goes!

1. Destructible environments: Needless to say, F3 and FNV were pretty indomitable! I remember my first attempt to explode a wooden door with some explosives. It did take me a little while to notice this was missing, but definitely after I did it was like glass shattering! I couldn't help the overwhelming ironic feeling that in a post apocalyptic wasteland, nothing was destructible.

- So what I would LOVE to see is nothing crazy, really. Some very 'basic' destructibility in the environment would just be the cherry on the cake so to speak. Such as just key features maybe: already weakened walls, wooden items, cupboards and furniture perhaps, but most importantly things like wooden/weak doors (if not walls).

- Caveat: I did notice in one of the combat gameplay videos that there appeared to be more debris from bullets and gunfire, which seemed nice. So I'm hoping more to this vain! I'm not expecting Crysis 1 or anything, but just something to break up (pun unintended but welcome) the world! I think it definitely adds something to the whole immersion. Not to mention how addicting it is to be able to blow stuff up!

2. Enemy flinch during combat: This one was a subtle thing that grew on me over time. What I mean by this is that during a gun fight, if you're firing an automatic rifle into an enemy, they continued to walk towards you, shoot and do everything just the same as if you weren't. For me personally this had a few effects.

- Firstly it took away from the feeling of impact during battle. I use flinching and reactions from being hit as a visual queue that I'm on target. It's not gamebreaking or core, or anything, but it's just a nice addition if that makes sense. I think it adds something special, immersion wise, if you hit an enemy once or twice that it'll interrupt their action for a moment. This is especially true to explosions. Now I haven't played F3/FNV in some time, and I accept my mistake if I'm wrong, but I do recall that even explosions had little to NO effect on enemies in this regard. Please do note, I'm not talking about death animations, I'm talking about non-killing blows.

Death animations are fantastic time and time again. No complaints there!

In all honesty other than that, I don't really have any complaints.

I mean sure, anyone could sit there and come up with a plethora of ways to 'improve the game' or add features: and what game is exempt from this rule? But That's not what my post is really about. I'm not suggesting by any measure an overhaul of anything. I do love the Fallout series- for what it is, before and during Bethseda's time. My 2 examples there (to some extent) I consider to be 'minor' adjustments I suppose. Small things that don't have a game-changing or game-breaking consequence. Doesn't affect the "heart" of Fallout, but definitely would add something special- and most importantly get rid of that nagging itch in the back of my head that sometimes makes me go "sigh, if only this".

TLDR- Put concisely, some minor destrucibility (doors, furniture, etc) and more flinch reaction from enemies hit during combat, including action interruption, were the only things F3/FNV didn't do that I always thought would just complete the Fallout experience for me, if they were implemented.

Are they unreasonable, inconsequential, or trite? Anyone have their own they might like to share that would complete the Fallout experience for them?

Anyway, thanks for reading!

Have a http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/4/4b/Fishy_stick.png/revision/latest?cb=20130514235330, newcomer.

Most games don't have destructible environments, and for good reason. There's a mod for New Vegas that endeavors to add them, though, and it's a great case study as to why it's so hard to do (also, the mod author himself doesn't recommend using it): NPC pathfinding doesn't know what's destroyed, it bloats up savegames for having to remember all of that physics data and what's been destroyed or not, and it just messes with the developer's level design. There does look to be some more chaos and a little destruction, though, going off of the E3 combat footage, although I wouldn't expect much.

And it looks like there is some flinch and stagger for the enemies this time around. Bethesda put in a great effort in improving the combat, they even consulted with id and hired over of the senior designers from Bungie. People are always talking about the RPG aspects of Fallout 4, and it's definitely a full-blown action RPG regardless of what anyone says - but I'm just a little curious to know if Fallout 4 will actually have any impact on the shooter genre, too.

Good first post OP,

I guess we'll all know in 20 days or so...

He abandoned the mod, too. He said it was a real pain in the butt to make it not bug out and it was basically messing up with every other mod out there.

Welcome! Some good points...

I'm torn on destructible environments. On one hand, all the aforementioned technical issues, plus it would be a shame to accidentally ruin some particularly nice scenery with a mini-nuke. On the other, it would be nice to see the world react realistically to our actions. I think there can be a middle path where certain things are destructible, but not major buildings/objects, and can be rebuilt in certain situations (e.g. restored to default state).

Agree on the flinching too. "Wow, that Talon merc sure takes 36 bullets to the face like a champ!" It bothers me that they're no reaction. There are some good signs - I believe one video involved the survivor shooting the arm off a synth enemy, so attacks may have real impact besides the "crippled" status that is just a minus to accuracy or whatever. Plus Dogmeat is able to incapacitate enemies for you. Both of these things point towards a more visceral, reactive combat experience.

If there's a small thing that bothers me, it's enemies' reaction to stealth kills. "Oh, there goes Jim, getting atomized into green goo right in front of me. But I haven't heard any suspicious noises for 6 seconds, so I guess everything's fine. Back to business, everyone." Such kills, or even coming across their allies' dead bodies, should put nearby enemies into a semi-permanent alert state that won't end until you completely leave the area or kill everyone.

My only concern is making sure I don't get hit in the head before the game comes out.

is game no real life, lol give 3 game that do stealth kill good.

and the shooting part if a issue on most game u play.

and Destructible environment, like someone point out, is out of the quest, be glad Fallout or ES game have so many items u can blow way or move, most game dont event let u move barrels or chair. Having full destructible environment will kill any engine, we speaking about a open world game no just 1 room on a shooter game.

All good points, and why they're just minor annoyances to me. I like the way Dishonored did stealth, and I wonder how if Bethesda's publishing connection means the two developers do any sort of collaboration. This would be an interesting question to ask I think. And yeah, the incredibly interactive environment is why Bethesda games seem to have lots of bugs, and I'm sure destructible environments would only exacerbate that. There's a trade-off for everything... Like I said, they're just minor things that take me out of the game. It would be a major accomplishment if they could beat the curve with any of this. I don't necessarily expect that, and honestly it wouldn't even upset me since it does seem kind of above and beyond.

For OP too...

I'm REALLY getting tired of hearing/reading claims that FO3 didn't have enemies react to being hit/hurt. They absolutely DO react, even to the point of running away screaming stuff like "I don't wanna die! and similar exit cries. They also get staggered or even knocked down (for certain weapons/hits). They do NOT simply run/walk forward through your bullet/energy rain, that's for sure.

They also react to shots/kills near them even if you're sniping from far outside their range of sight/hearing/senses.

Sometimes these reactions might not trigger as such coding can be inactive/bugged for certain contexts, but it is still in the game and works most of the time.

1. You can now shoot through walls with P9 perk so that may help you with some of your destructible environment needs but I don't see like them allowing to blow up everything in the environment perhaps in the next title.

2. While NPCs reactions in fights aren't great they do react to being crippled. In the two prior games, if you cripple their torso they pause and kinda bend over or if you cripple their arm they do drop their gun and grab their arm. Again not really great dynamic combat but not the end of the world for me.

Thank you everyone for your great replies. I ended up having to go away for work and didn't get a chance to jump back on and check more regularly!

@AiTenshi

I would like to just clarify, I definitely agree that there ARE reactions to combat and being engaged; however I was mostly referring to "reactions" from being physically hit by a bullet or projectile, concepts akin to "knock back" or "stagger". By no means am I expecting something perfect, and it's ultimately a RPG (definitely with a shooter overtone), and I can't deny there is SOME stagger/knock back to be enjoyed, I was just trying to express my desire for something a little more 'pronounced' and refined. I absolutely acknowledge many of the quirky and charming instances of enemies running, screamingm, burning and the lot which you referred to. This is definitely most welcome and I praise Bethesda for not just incorporating that aspect, but doing it so well! However I have to admit that my experience does mostly reflect:

RE- Destructible Environments.

I absolutely agree that having a total and persistent destructible world is well, asking too much. By no means do I expect this. In fact, personally, as mentioned by QueenJellyFish, partial destruction, or a nice balance, or even "temporary" destruction. By temporary destruction I mean during your current load cycle. I mean this would probably be terrible too depending on how many loading screens exist and how prone you are to save scumming. In fact it could have some HILARIOUS implications too haha! But if MINOR objects (doors/windows/the like) were destructible, as opposed to complete terrain destruction, I think that would be well within the means!

It could also provide more opportunity for epic level design, of course at the cost of much more work. Having alternate ways to enter different situations, buildings, etc. But anyway. This is definitely a feature I do look forward too, and in no way mars my anticipation of F4! But it's something I dream for. As an example of what would EXCEED my expecations for destruction in Fallout, I would refer you to Crysis 1.

@QueenJellyFish

I definitely recognise the stealth aspect now that you've brought it to light! I never noticed on my own because I suppose to some extent, as a gameplay consideration I was always so relieved that the second sentry standing only a moment away doesn't notice the insta-kill disintegrating screaming victim, thus detecting my presence! I think this really added to my propensity to push the boundaries on being detected haha!

Thanks everyone again for posting, I really enjoyed the read. Stealth is one I never noticed personally.

I think what Bethesda have done with Fallout has REALLY opened the doors to the potential to make the most COMPLETE game we have. It has elements from everything, especially with the addition of construction. I can see this Fallout in the future becoming the be all RPG, Shooter, RTS even, all in one. Crazy thought, hopefully it doesn't become jack of all, master of none! But rather jack of all, master of some, then all .

We've already seen some destructible environments in the E3 video (where the protag throws a grenade at some super mutants and then a bunch of wall panels go flying with the explosion).

The game's also obviously using a different pathfinding algorithm due to the addition of the settlement areas.

Enemies in fallout respond to extremes when getting shot at.

Either they completely ignore that shotgun blast you just sent into their chest, they get crippled and suffer a lengthy animation, or their body explodes into a red paste.

The addition of armor being destroyed looks to be an answer though.

Armour being destroyed sounds awesome, that would definitely scratch my itch! It's all about the visual (and audible, maybe that's what I've been missing) feedback.

Oh I have not seen this vi.. oh yes I have seen the video and I saw where you're referring to!

Promising, I like it. Not quite what I had in mind, but it's a start that's for sure! In the scene immediately prior he shoots a mini nuke to the side of the building and it didn't quite have the same oomph. Just for arguments sake, I would use the example there that the railing/stairs the enemy was standing in should be in pieces. At the least for the nuke. One day thought I'm sure!

I won't beat that horse, as I mentioned, Crysis 1 level of 'destructibility' is the dream (for me) in Fallout. But I'll take any levels they manage to put in over time with pleasure!

I get the distinct feeling though that Fallout seems to be viewed as quite the complete game. There isn't really too much to fault. It's rather impressive.