No argument that locks have been around for a long time. But most of those old locks (as well as most locks actually used in chests and desks) are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warded_lock. The lock in the Oblivion mini-game appears to be basically a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock, a device which was invented by Linus Yale in 1848. So just show me the locksmith shop in Cyrodiil.

As to the second part... From what I've been able to determine, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapement (a necessity for a mechanical clock) was probably invented in China around 1000 AD. No escapement means no mechanical clock, regardless of the ability to machine metal. There were, however, water-powered clocks in Europe, long before the Middle Ages.

(Note that clockwork does exist in Morrowind, but it's only present in one place in Cyrodiil -- in the Orrery at the Arcane University, which is broken, and can't be fixed without getting special Dwemer parts brought in.)

The 'pendulum' clocks were the first 'accurate' mechanical clocks. Invented 1656 by Christiaan Huygens, in The Netherlands.
Althought the famous Galileo Galilei conceived the original concept in 1637.

One of the images in the link I posted shows an ancient Egyptian lock design with a pin tumbler dynamic... remarkably similar to those found in Cyrodiil.
"Yale’s best-known lock design, the cylinder pin-tumbler lock, utilized a key-operated lock concept first conceived in ancient Egypt over 4,000 years ago." -- Wiki.

I neglected to include water powered clocks as I didn't think they were relevant to 'mechanical clocks'.


*http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Samuel_Bantien

So please put a map-marker on the Bruma Locksmith Shoppe, so I can find it! :wink_smile:

I didn't intend to drag the discussion off-topic like this. My mention of locks and clocks was by way of speaking about my loss of RPG immersion, when the lock-picking mini-game window pops open on my screen. The mini-game, and the design of the lock in it, simply jars with the rest of my Cyrodiil experience. Your opinion on this may well be different.

Edit: Yes, Samuel Bantien is quite the "locksmith." :whistling:

Well Niamh sat down earlier and had a damn good try at going through locks - (albeit in someone else's house) - unfortunately amongst her many undoubted talents nowhere is there listed patience. She's a girl for whom the "Lockpick in, and roll the dice" is very much the way forward, if it works cool and if it doesn't well she's more than fatalistic enough to go with that. At least until the next time.
Given half a chance she'd just beat the thing into submission, or stab it when it wasn't looking, more likely.

Ahh..I thought I recalled reading a book in Cyrodiil concerning the topic in question. Locks... Here it is:
"The modern lock has a fascinating history in Cyrodiil. The need to restrict access to one's home has been a problem since homes were first built. The very first security system was a simple bar across the door. This has the obvious shortcoming of only being functional when the owner is at home.
The first recorded instance of a lock is the ingenious armbreaker of Castle Anvil. The count of the day put five slide bars on the side of the door. A hole in the door just above them allowed him to reach in and manipulate any of these bars. Only one of the bars truly locked or unlocked the door. The other four released the clasp on a hammer that fell down on the person's arm. Only by knowing which sliding bar was the true lock could one safely open the door.

For over a hundred years, the state of the art in locks was defined by sliding bars and punished traps. Then the famous dwarfMzunchend invented the pin lock. The first example had three pins. The key was turned in the lock four times, each turn depending on a different pin being in position. Obviously a pin could be used more than once.

It was 65 years before anyone devised a method to open a pin-based lock without the key and without damaging the lock. It wasn't that the problem was so difficult. It was that nobody other than royalty could afford Mzunchend's locks. An enterprising blacksmith named Orenthal decided to mass-produce a common form of the lock at a reasonable price. Suddenly every shop had a lock. Now there was a reason to subvert the locks. It wasn't long before lockpicks and lockpicking appeared. Orenthal became quite wealthly inventing more and more sophisticated locks.

Today's locks are sophisticated mechanisms with spring-loaded pins. Each metal pin must be pushed up by the key precisely to open the lock. Any imprecision in the key, any poorly made copy, or any clumsy attempt at lockpicking releases the spring tension, causing the pin to clamp down upon or even break the key or lockpick.

Locks are made more secure by using multiple pins in the lock. Multiple-pin locks are more delicate and difficult to make, and more expensive, but provide a greater reliability against tampering. Multiple-pin locks have the further virtue of resetting all pins when any single pin is tampered with. A single mistake with the fifth pin of a five-pin lock requires a thief to reset all five pins again. Most affordable locks are one-pin or two-pin locks. The five-pin lock is the highest achievement of the lockmaker's craft, and the greatest challenge to a would-be intruder.

Picking the modern lock is an art form. A lockpick is a thin metal bar with a small tooth on the end. The tooth is used to press the pin up into the lock mechanism. The thief uses skill and experience to manipulate each pin in turn to determine the exact tension necessary to set the spring-loaded pin at its catchpoint. With a subtle pressing and lofting of the pin, the master thief determines the exact motion required to set it.

A novice thief breaks many picks while learning his trade. Only with time and practice will he get better at guessing the tension and timing necessary to set a pin. As a result, novice thieves tend to carry a great many lockpicks, while the masters only need to carry a few."
-- History Of Lockpicking


The Mini-Game is an aid to our senses. RPing on computers we do not have a great sense of touch, so we must be granted a visual aid.
I have no issue with the Mini-Game, in fact I find it immersive. It is an attribute I admire in Cyrodiil. (the locks are beautiful). Perhaps some relevant and appropriate signs of aging, dust/damage/scuffs and scratches would help with continuity. After all, for a damp, dingy, dungeon the locks do look pristine. But as I said, I think they are more a minds eye interpretation of what the hands are sensing.

Once you get the hang of it it's really easy. I've got about 300 lockpicks cause I never break them.

Might I suggest just having one, possibly two? Even as a lockpick master, having only that makes you concentrate if you really want to open a certain chest. Makes it a little more interesting

Can always do the Nocturn quest - the item you get is pretty handy.

Learn a very hard lock opening spell.

Only problem with that is that it doesn′t work underwater

Major tip for lockpicking?
Always make sure you have some bloody lockpicks to start with!!!!

That said I do use the auto-lock-picker more often than not, mostly because Niamh is far too impatient, a flaw she shares with her creator...

But I like the mini game, it's a nice idea and it's involving as well which is cool. Equally though I always the "waggle the lockpick" thing in MW was quite fun as well, but somehow I don't think that would work as well in Oblivion...

Deus Ex has the same "waggling" thing as Morrowind and I always found that boring. I like the idea of literally diving into the mechanics of a lock