I always say anything can die and I known deadric princes can kill other deadric princes but is the any other way they can be killed

Not so sure about this, it took the combined efforts of the other princes just to curse Jyggy.

Yes, destroy the universe. Short of that, you might be able to kill the being who is fulfilling the role of the Prince, but somebody else will just fill the role.

Depends, can you kill the idea of revolution? Or the idea of stasis? Or the idea of control? To kill a Daedric Prince would be the same as killing an Aedra, you would have to remove all possibility of the idea of the Prince from ever possibly existing. Which is impossible, because their existance is forever written within the Elder Scrolls. Even if you went back in time and prevented a Prince from ever existing, the Elder Scrolls would still have recorded it, and the idea of that Prince would be forever and eternal.

Hence, destroy the universe. Just side with the Thalmor, they'll get it done in a roundabout way.

Of course. But they saw what happened last time, so they know what not to do. Don't give up part of yourself, kids.

To kill a Prince, it wouldn't be enough to "kill" him. You'd have to eliminate the niche he occupies, for Prince and Niche are one and the same.

Well, we don't even know if destroying all of existence/the universe would get rid of the Elder Scrolls. They're weird like that.

There's also the fact that trying to destroy the universe would probably just end up summoning Dagon instead, defeating the point of trying to kill a Daedric Prince. You'd have to get creative. The Thalmor's goal of returing to the Dawn Era still wouldn't work either, since I'm pretty sure the Elder Scrolls existed before then and going back to the Dawn Era wouldn't do anything to them.

EDIT: Iff we're talking about "kill" and not "destroy" then things get a lot more simpler. Just do what the Aedra did, after all the Aedra are just dead Daedric Princes.

What about an elder scroll could do it.

The Daedra - even lesser Daedra - are unkillable. They can only be banished to the "waters of Oblivion" for a while, before they come back.

The existence of the Daedra as such is tied to Mundus. Get rid of it and you get rid of them. In the model of the wheel, the daedra are the spaces between the spokes (which are aedra). Destroy the wheel and the spaces cease to exist. Destroy the wheel and everything returns to the flux, and in the flux everything dies.

The closest thing to killing a Daedric Prince is banishment

Actually, do we have any evidence of things dying pre-mundus? I'm not saying we have any evidence that stuff was immortal pre-mundus, but I don't recall any records of things being killed in the interval between the et'ada springing into being and the creation of the mundus. I think the question of "would un-making the Dawn allow you to kill stuff" is still up in the air. IIRC, all the original spirits are still around and kicking, though I suppose the Yokudan creation myth may imply some sort of existential danger in the pre-mundus cycles.

I don't know how true this is, but from what I understand Daedric Princes have two true names, one that can be changed, and one that can't. If you know the latter, you have total power over that Prince, and could potentially kill them with it.

"These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been. One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last.--Sithis

This is what Mundus is all about. It's why Lorkhan created it in elven myths (with the Dunmer adding "it's a test" to the whole thing). Even CHIM is to exist in a constant state of flux (with a high chance of Zero Sum).

Edit: Auriel ended concept of dying in elven myths. The Altmer believe he should control everything, so everything can last forever and not have to die. The problem is, though, everything has to die so they can attain this.

Only the men and their divine champions need to be set aside for the Dawn to be reversed. All else are fine, AFAIK.

Yeah, but then the Time Dragon pops up, and according to that, things stop fading away. AFAIK, both Aedra and Daedra are of the et'ada that sprang into being with the Time Dragon. None of them have ever died. The "ideas" that came before them ebbed and flowed and faded away, but they themselves have never been shown to be killable. All that this quote from Sithis proves is that, if you got rid of the TD's influence, then things might be killable, but that's a paradox. In order to kill an et'ada, you first need to kill Auri-El, who is an Et'Ada.

In a way, Lorkhan killed a whole bunch of them when he created Mundus. The creation of Mundus was all about the death of the original spirits.

Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. For some this was an artistic transfiguration into the concrete, non-magical substance of the world. For others, this was a war in which all were slain, their bodies becoming the substance of the world. For yet others, this was a romantic marriage and parenthood, with the parent spirits naturally having to die and give way to the succeeding mortal races.

- The Monomyth

CHIM is not the goal, it is stepping stone.
Of course they haven't been shown to be killable after the point where they were rendered unkillable, which is why I suggest the way to kill them is to remove the mechanism that makes them unkillable (since them being unkillable only applies to this post-stabilization context). There were things like them before the advent of time, and those things died. The only difference between the Daedra and those things that died is that the former is what we call them when the universe reached the point that they were no longer dying. Reverse that state and the daedra will become what they were before, ideas ebbing and flowing and fading away, dying.

Perhaps we'd best do with another source:

"These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been. One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last.--Sithis

"For ages the etada grew and shaped and destroyed each other and destroyed each other’s creations.... Here were the etada with their magic and their voids and everything in between and he yearned for the return to flux but at the same time he could not bear to lose his identity."--Vehk's Teachings

Note, the bit from Vehk's Teachings is after Akatosh is already on the scene. With these two texts we're offered two different types of 'death'. One of them is a 'return to the flux', where 'death' results in a loss of identity (in like form as the dreamsleeve), things die in the ebbing and flowing and fading away. The presence of Time puts a stop to this. But then even after the presence of time, there are still etada destroying each other - so, they can still die.

What is it that happens next and seemingly renders some immortal? The creation of Mundus.

By this there should be two ways of killing them. One is to destroy Time, which will 'kill' everything. The other is to destroy Mundus, which will revert them back to the state where they were previously destroying each other (and really, that makes one wonder, why would the creation of Mundus cause those not involved in it's creation to be no longer destructible?)


On a random note, the term "et'ada" seems rather poorly defined, and there is conflict even within unified texts as to what it refers to. Vehk's Teachings and the intro to the Monomyth posit all spirits before the creation of Mundus as Et'ada; however, the "Myth of Aurbis" and the "Altmeri Heart of the World" attribute the term only to those who created the world:

-"The magical beings, then, having died, became the et'Ada... The Daedra were created at this time also..."

-"So they created the Mundus, where their own aspects might live, and became the et'ada."--The Monomyth

The only thing I might posit regarding it is that Akatosh/Auriel is decidedly not an et'ada, especially in the Altmeri/Vehkian scheme of things. In the broadest definition, the etada are the beings who were spawned in the flux; Auriel, on the other hand, is what allows the et'ada to form:

"Each gave birth to their souls, Auriel and Sithis, and these souls regarded the Aurbis each in their own part, and from this came the etada, the original patterns."--Vehk's Teachings

Similarly in the 'Altmeri Heart of the World', Auriel is created by Anuiel, and after Auriel's creation the etada begin to spring forth. Auriel is unique amongst the spirits (as it Lorkhan arguably).

Indeed it's not. The goal is Aramanth, which is (if I understand it correctly) even more subgradience.

Tell me more!

And as for the main question: "Daedra cannot be killed, but can only be banished back to Oblivion. In order to banish a Daedra, its mortal body must be destroyed. Sometimes, this is not an option since some of the Daedra are terribly powerful in arcane and martial arts. Some knowledgeable persons learn the existence of protonymic. By using this protonymic, one can banish the Daedra almost "effortless". The incantation of the protonymic drains the vital force from the Daedra, forcing it to follow that force into Oblivion. There one abides until the vital force is replenished. The experience is somewhat anologous to sleep for mortals. However, sleep is a normal experience for mortals. It is not a normal experience for an immortal. Suffice it to say that it is as close to the terror and despair of death as an immortal can come. Naturally the banished Daedra will return to its Daedric Realm, however its personality is somehow changed, as well as its protonymic. Usually the protonymic is extended with neonymic; obviously this means that a Daedra cannot be banished with the same protonymic twice." - Guide to the Daedra, Imperial Library

Is Amaranth subgradience? I understood it to be absolute supergradience, to surpass the One before even the Two of Anu and Padhome.

You do, but then you dream a new universe out of yourself.

The way I see it, and this could be wrong, is like this:

The further you go down the subgradient, the more "gray" you become. Anu/Pad were pure black and white. The et'Ada created aetherious and oblivion, which were echos of Anu and Padomay, but were not pure black or white. The mundus, and mortals are the grayest things in the aurbis, the closest things to the godhead.

Maybe this is why it seems only mortals can really attain chim, even though some gods, like Molag Bal and Azura, seem to know of it.

One more subgradient and you're just as gray as the GH. Luagar described Z as going past the bottom of the screen in an old school video game, like asteroids, and popping back up at the top.


There's about a 50% chance I just said a whole lotta nonsense, but there it is.

That's a pretty interesting idea, and a visualization I hadn't considered before.