On top of all this remember folks as bethesda is the new group to completely own the whole shebang they have the right to change the canon as they see fit.

It's your problem if you haven't played FO1 and FO2. This game is called "Fallout 3". F-A-L-L-O-U-T-T-H-R-E-E.

I respect and appreciate how Bethesda generally handled FO3 and I'm really happy for them, but it's still a sequel to FO1 and FO2, and even if you (or god knows how many other ignorant next gen smart mouths) don't know or care about F1 and F2, they are one of the biggest reasons FO3 is financially successful. And it should have been much more coherent to them.

First off I'd like to issue a reminder here that we do not allow members to insult each other, so please keep flames, name-calling and derisive comments out of here.


Oh, I loved the Star Trek movie.

I don't mind someone playing fast and loose with lore, or the odd bit of retconning, so long as what I liked about the original is retained - which is normally more subtle than simple facts. The new "Star Trek" movie gets Trek in a way that the previous one didn't; it just asks the question, "Why was the Wrath of Khan a great movie and the one before it less so?". They both have the same setting and characters, but Trek's appeal actually lies in the sense of wonder at space exploration, and its fun sense of humour.

It's the same with Harry Potter - the fourth film is a very faithful adaptation of the book (minus some waffling subplots and - annoyingly - a few key dramatic scenes) but it's just not a good movie. The fifth one just takes the core elements of what's good about the book and makes a thoroughly enjoyable movie that really works cinematically.

It's also a lot like mods: the most lore-correct mod I've ever played was the one I've found most boring. One of my favourite mods for Oblivion stuck a Star Trek-style spacecraft up in the air, complete with Enterprise crew!

However, I can understand why putting a Star Trek mod in Oblivion would be jarring to some people and "break the immersion", which is why most of the mods I use are somewhere in the middle. They use the lore, but are not slaves to it, and if something needs to change to accommodate the mod (a bit of weaseling) then that is fine with me so long as it's done in a way that feels like it fits (like the 'parallel dimension' device in sci-fi).

I think as far as aliens in Fallout are concerned, it's like Doctor Who. There's a TARDIS in one of the games, and it doesn't fit. It's an easter egg, and that's fine. So let's say that there was a TARDIS in all the games. Now let's say that there's more than one TARDIS in all the games. And a K-9. And a Rose. And a Doctor. Suddenly, it's not just a silly easter egg that's been thrown in for a giggle, but actually a functioning part of that world. And, since it has appeared in the game before - more than one game, more than one part of the game - it's canon.

Well I was just trying to get my point across, maybe its not a mockery, but some times it kinda feels like it.




No, I thought they would help my point, the only ridiculos thing is that you took the time to post about that, and only that.
Sorry you didn't like it.



I think it is, the setting of a game can really make or break it, and it also helps to enrich the game, and its back story.
Helping to flesh out the game, its history and other things can make a game stang out in this day and age.



No sir, you sure can't stay point and click in this day and age, becuase NWN-2 and Drakensang don't exist, Diablo has no point and click, and all the RTS game's feature mind controll.
I don't flame them for some things, but the enclave is kinda iffy, and the others are just re-cycled, there not doing anything special, us "old fans" feel out of place because of the way the skills where abused.
Maybe you should look at the second fallout tactics, it was completey different and had all new plot and foes, but was still fallout, I simply point out that they did not try something new, insted of just kinda throwing the ideas of the first 2 fallouts into a hodge podge and making a story out of that.




Yes, they do.
But should they? that is the question.

Dumbing the game down ( see morrowind>Oblivion ) and then butchering the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system was a bad move IMO.
How about this, lets take the elder scrolls series and changed it, the lore and cannon of it, and see how many people get angry?
but its ok, they only get angry because of nostalaga right?
or if we change halo 4 into a RPG, see how many of the halo FPS fans go crazy.

If you don't care about what came before, then no offense... but you don't really belong in a discussion on the Fallout series canon.



That won't stop people from considering it non-canon if Chris Taylor and Tim Cain come out and say that they don't consider it as such.



You really shouldn't call old school fans clueless unless you've actually played the first two games extensively.

QFT.

You're my hero now.

Firstly, let us try and set the name calling, dismissive attitudes and elitist snobbery aside. Here is my take on the subject:
One day, there was a fire.
Even in the Fallout timeline, there were sections of the government that didn't know what their cohorts were up to. The military, the government, The Enclave (shadow government) and Vault-Tec all had intertwining but also separate agendas. Add to this a nuclear war and precise interpretation of surviving (and perhaps as yet unfound) records is going to be difficult. This leaves some pretty big holes to drive changes in story, circumstances, what was where and who did what, through.

That's how I get past the "Hey, that isn't how F1/F2 said it was supposed to be."

No sir, you sure can't stay point and click in this day and age, becuase NWN-2 and Drakensang don't exist, Diablo has no point and click, and all the RTS game's feature mind controll.
I don't flame them for some things, but the enclave is kinda iffy, and the others are just re-cycled, there not doing anything special, us "old fans" feel out of place because of the way the skills where abused.
Maybe you should look at the second fallout tactics, it was completey different and had all new plot and foes, but was still fallout, I simply point out that they did not try something new, insted of just kinda throwing the ideas of the first 2 fallouts into a hodge podge and making a story out of that.


isnt tatics non conon? nuff said

nwn-2 ectect are all pc titles only and RTS games dont translate to console no matter what people mite think

completey missed the point did we?
I said fallout tactics 2, a quick look around, or any sort of info on fallout as a series will tell you that fallout tactics 2 was never pulbished.
SO, beth could have looked at the info/data left from the project that WAS NEVER published and used it for fallout 3.
Is tactics non cannon?
Depends now, because some things in fallout 3 takes it as cannon, and then you get into if fallout3 is cannon and so on.

So, let me spell it out for you one more time, "Maybe you should look at the second fallout tactics
the SECOND FALLOUT TACTICS.

here lets me links that for you.
http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&q=fallout+tactics+2


"nwn-2 ectect are all pc titles only and RTS games dont translate to console no matter what people mite think."
Fallout 1/2 was PC only, what do consoles have to do anything with this?
straw man argument?

did i say anything about fallout tatics 2? theres a lotta fallout projects that didnt get to hit the market along with "fallout vb and bos 2"

use interplays work and used it as there own? cant speak for beth but even if i own the rights to it i wouldnt of used it, beth wanted to make fallout there own not run prewar tech and scav it.
and if ur gonna say use fallout tatics 2 for the story y not use VB as it was orginaly ment to be fallout3 in the 1st place?

forget all the other stuff about other games i just feel that point an click is dated my opinon just as i think most platform games are dated, il give u that one

I have to agree with some of the points brought up by the canonists. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. really doesn't feel special and if the writing was good then we'd have some logical explanations as to why the events of Fallout 3 play out the way they do. In the end what are you going to do though? It is what it is, and I sure as hell ain't going to lose any sleep over it.

Man, are we on the same topic.

you said tactics was non cannon, I pointed out that depending on how you look at it is, or is not, as fallout-3 takes some things from it.
I was mearly stating that they could have used the ideas from the cancled tactics 2, or any other place for that matter, but just because they use a idea from some one else, does not mean it cant be there own work.
Yes they could have just used VB, but they didn't heck they could have used the general setting.

Well if you think they are dated that is fine, that is what you think, but many people would not agree with you, point and click is a very good system, even in FO-3 on PC you are pointing ( aiming ) and clicking ( shooting ) so point and click are never gonna go away, just how the point and click is used is the real big change.
That said, there are a lot of people who still buy point and click games, and they tend to be more complex and more about the player character and not the person playing the game, but this is not always so.

Quoted.

"I have to agree with some of the points brought up by the canonists. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. really doesn't feel special and if the writing was good then we'd have some logical explanations as to why the events of Fallout 3 play out the way they do. In the end what are you going to do though? It is what it is, and I sure as hell ain't going to lose any sleep over it. "

I am not gonna loose any sleep over it my self, I dont even play fallout-3, just 1/2 when i take a break from mout and blade ( great game BTW ), but you can't really do much, just try to protest and hope that things get better and not worse.

thats assuming that the only reason that it would be in canon is because there was "an" alien refed in a n easter egg...



space race
military rockets launcehed into space for both ICBM testing and Space travel/xploration
cold war
anti-comunism
fear of nuclear war destroying us all, while simultaneously fuelling the publics curiosity of space travel and wondering on extra terrestrials
developers think "what a great idea for a game"


is it anti canon to re-explore the very things in history that inspired the fallout canon?

agreed im not gonna lose sleep over this ,connon is very opinon based as it is anyway
was nice haveing this back an fourth and my 1st try at flexing my fallout muscles lol

I understand, I've found the fallout universe to be a vary interesting place and would like to see it improve.

I apologize to anyone who mightve construed any of my posts as name calling..

Yeah ditto.

Wasn't he some chunky detective in a sitcom back in the early 70s?

Dating myself?

errr..that didn't come out right...

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!????

This ==> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_(TV_series)

No, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Turkish_Bombard_at_Fort_Nelson.JPG = Canon.

LOL @ carrying this thread to Community Discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zykrtutkchg

What are you talking about? Which canon is in question?

I thought canonical texts were those that were decided by the Vatican councils not to be heretical or dangerous to church doctrine. :shrug:

Even a lot of the canon conflicts. And some of the heretical texts cover other areas of history.

Overall, however, I think canon is determined by conveying the proper message. Which text promulgates the worldview that we have of the world.