Oh ok, so you're saying that they should completely change the Terminator franchise and make it about puppies and rainbows and flowers?

Hey, it's not canon, but that's ok!

Apparently that's fine, as long as puppies, rainbows and flowers were never eliminated during the previous 3 films. The next Terminator film could be about a puppy looking for flowers by follwing a rainbow.

canon simply means you cannot deviate from the original story, ever :facepalm: duh

exactly, cannon and lore are very important, with out them there would be no rule set, with out cannon and lore fallout 2 could have been about rasing kittens in the waste land ( even thoguh kittens are cute ) it would be stupid to call it fallout 2, but calling it fallout kitten adventure would be ok.
Cannon and lore are very important to any game, or series.

quoted
"canon simply means you cannot deviate from the original story, ever duh "

Nah man, be like that.
Cannon and lore set the game's background and the way the world is viewed, having a sprawling city in fallout 4 that is in perfect shape and everyone has power and clean food and water does not belong in it, it goes against cannon.
BUT having a city that is run down, has miminal power and scarse food supply would fit right in, no matter who lived in it.

Could someone briefly explain the plot of the first two games to me. Specifically relating to the enclave and pre-war stuff. I tried reading it once and a lot of the time I could not find motive for some actions except "they are evil bastards".

AFAIK, like with Oblivion, the previous games have little to nothing to do with the most recent game. It's just a similar main character in a different setting.

You'll have to go to the FO lore section to find anything out.

Not really much where to go, if something goes against the fallout bible/game lore it is considered non-cannon. Simple.

I'm no longer on the Fallout sections of the forum, but I can see why it's constantly thrown about. Some 'suggestions for improvement' really kill the game lore.

The enclave did not appear untill Fallout 2.

Basicly in fallout 1 ( evil is a point of view ) you had a guy/muntant whatever he was, who wanted to changed the world into a single, great race the SM's and you stopped him.
But that is just a real quick run down.
In fallout 2, the enclave are using the vualt dwellers as test subjects and want to kill everyone and then start over, death claws make there first round as well.

The enclave are not evil per say, they just view the world as a dangrous place that needs to be cleaned before the land is re-settled, they view the survivors ( mostly ghouls and SM ) as a plauge/threat and want to get rid of anyone that could hinder them.
Like if you go and want to build a house in the wild, but there are animals/people that are similar to you that won't let you, or could get in your way, and you mearly though of them like ants, or flys you would simply kill them so that you can go on.

But this is a really short quick run down, and the way I view things.

Canon is sorta like poetic license. The only true Canon is the one who thunk it.

It means nothing. It's of little importance to anyone but the frothy scum known lovingly as the "hardcoe fanbase." Canon is their word for wanting to see their precious sacred cow copied to a suitable exact because anything else would be doing it an injustice. They're offended by change in and of itself.

I agree to an extent. The new Fallout is supposedly 200 years after the last one, so things could certainly have changed.


But with things like How Cyrodill went from Hostile Jungle to Temperate forest, that might make more than a few double takes.

Really now? I am offended by change?
Like I said, have said, and will say again, fallout 3 would have made a GREAT spin off, but its not that good as #3 in line.
Cannon is not our world for some sacred cow, nor do we want the same thing re-heated, just like I said.

Let us take the elder scroll's and make it about fairy princess and remove all RPG aspects turn it into a FPS and set it in some urban city and see how much the current fans like that.
Or better yet, lets make Halo 4 a RPG that features turn based combat, and was set before John ( Master cheif, I read the books ) was a spartian and see how much the fans of the current game like that.

By the way, I don't like you calling me scum, thanks.

Erm, you do realize that III took place in Morrowind, while IV was in Cyrodiil?

I'm still wondering why this thread is in (or was moved to) Community Discussion when it obviously references the Fallout series more than anything. I spent a half page wondering what the O.P. was going on about before it finally made sense (well, somewhat). Its just a non sequitur for this forum.

You do realize that according to lore cyrodiil is supposed to be a tropic jungle, right? :confused:

nah that don''t matter, beth can do anything they want and its ok.

I am well aware of that.


however, according to the In-game Lore books (Even the one in Oblivion...) Cyrodill was described as a Jungled area (Colovia non-withstanding).

In the Pocket Guide to the Empire (pre-Oblivion lore), Cyrodiil is described as "endless jungle". In Oblivion, Cyrodiil appears as temperate forest. Bethesda do just change things whenever they feel like it. And yes, a handful of people got very angry indeed, and everyone else just got on with playing the game.


According to the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_Crash_Site:

"The Alien Crash Site appears in Fallout 3. However, crashed alien spacecraft are not new to the Fallout series. A crashed flying saucer appears in Fallout 1 as a special encounter. In the original encounter, it is clear that the spacecraft had been at least known to Earth, as it bore a "Property of Area 51" sticker. Like the Fallout 3 encounter, it was also the source for the unique Alien Blaster.

In Fallout 2, the Alien Blaster can be bought off a random encounter merchant provided the player has a high enough luck stat. No flying saucers or alien crash sites are part of the Fallout 2 game world, however a crashed spacecraft of a sort does exist as the Federation Crash Site special encounter.

On close examination of the ship's cockpit, there appears to be three seats, there could have been more aliens that survived."

My point was that when something is repeatedly referenced, it can no longer be considered as a one-off joke, but a proper part of the game. It's like the difference between a cameo and a recurring character.

Most Halo fans, myself included, would love it. Most want that. Most were bummed when the Halo MMORPG was canceled.

Pretty much every classic game franchise that got bought and dusted off by a new company had a minority of people getting angry. Been there, done that. The majority of people, though, moves on and has fun with the games.

I've heard people get angry about the newer TETRIS games having a story!

I've seen similar ravings of a vocal minority of "hardcoe" fans when Prince of Persia when 3D, and when the POP franchise was bought by Ubisoft. Another good example is Escape from Monkey Island.

Stargate: Continuum broke Stargate canon by having time travel alter reality rather than create an alternate reality, really pissed me off that one did.

Like with Cyrodiil in Elder Scrolls, Bethesda changed Black Isle's Fallout lore, in the bad way.
I didn't mind because Bethesda managed to pull off a good post-apocalyptic RPG but not a title worthy of being called Fallout.
I will still always believe that Fallout 3 should have built on Van Buren's docs like Toliken's son did with his father's unreleased works.

You keep the lore, you keep the system and you keep the atmosphere of the old games, pleasing the fans of F1 and F2, & you also attract new gamers to the series.

Now, when playing F3, I'm not playing F3. I'm just playing an RPG by Bethesda.

Spartan...

Sorry I just felt like correcting this.

On topic though its not like Beth changed the atmosphere, setting, and background of the game, they only changed how it was played, not the world its played in...

Aliens were always a part of the origional game even if they were only tiny parts...But how many non-canon encounters can produce a weapon that you could use the entire game? And Aliens were discussed many times by various people in the origionals. What if I used the Alien Blaster to kill Frank? Because according to you aliens don't exsist then the weapon I used doesn't, so how did I kill him, with an non-exsistent gun shooting non-exsistent shots? Did I beat him to death when my unarmed skill was 34 and my Energy Weapons was 161??? How can you say Aliens don't exsist when they fit perfectly the enviorment the game is based in, the culture of the 50s (come on Aliens was the 50s culture) have been refrence numerous times in the past games, and you could specifically interact with Alien Tech? I mean the Enclave had a hold of this Tech and they've got the best there is, it was on the Oil Rig!!!

The Fallout Bible even mentioned an Invasion from space was possible becasue of what the people of the 50s believed.

The Enclave even considered flying into space if they couldn't survive on Earth after the bombs fell, thats what several of the Vault studies were for, surviving on a space ship, so space travel was even refrenced in the origionals. Really aliens belong in this game just as much as anything else becasue its based on 50s culture.