when something new (youall know that what im talking about isnt even new, im being generous with that term) is introduced, it doesnt go against canon, unless it opposes the canon.
just because something has never been there before doesnt default it to going against or even changing the cannon.

im sorry to keep pointing at this. but its hard skipping over everyones posts when its constantly brought up...


instead of saying somehting goes against canon when it doesnt, just say that you dont like it.
theres nothing wrong with not liking something.


Love,
Kickstand27

I thought it was a big gun go boom.

I agree with you 100%. It's ridiculous how these people react to anything that differs from the story line of a game that came out 12 years ago. They're so consumed by the nostalgic memories that can't even give something new a chance. They also need to understand that Fallout has way more fans now than it ever did. So if they can't let past stay where it belongs, they're going to get left behind because they can't move forward. The Fallout series has come a looooooooong way and Bethesda's made tons of steps in the right direction. By listening to all these elitist canon preachers, they'd end up taking steps back just to appease a very small group. Get over yourselves, you didn't have anything to do with the making of the original game or any that followed. Don't act like you know what's best for the game. If Bethesda didn't know what they were doing, it wouldn't have been such a hit.

Yeah I'd also like to add to this:

I've always been a "fan" of cannon for alot of things (Including fallout), but as far as I can tell this DLC sounds fun! and to be honest, that gets rid of any sort of "cannon" problems for me...As just because they are adding it in, doesnt mean it has to be cannon, you can just look at it as a an extra bit to a great game thats meant to be FUN.

So while I do know where people are coming from with canon, and for things like "Main storyline quests" this can be important, for things like this..its a fun new idea... that honestly should just be enjoyed instead of wondering why its not cannon.

but its not even against canon

It's OK to enjoy Fallout 1 and 2, but seriously, some of the hardcoe posters sound like what they really wanted was a 3D, first-person version of the first games.

It's a different game, people! If you don't want anything new, go back to playing the old ones!

Uh-oh, i'd get on your flame proof suit round about now.

if you all want to talk aout the perspective differences in this game compared to others, please start your own thread.

this thread is about the issue of canon

So, you are complaining about people complaining?

But anyway, I could fit into that group that thinks several things in FO-3 are well against the wirtten history and some points in game, Like the F.E.V in D.C. and that Vault 83 was the last vault to be finished when it was susposed to be Vault 13.


" By listening to all these elitist canon preachers, they'd end up taking steps back just to appease a very small group. Get over yourselves, you didn't have anything to do with the making of the original game or any that followed."

No we didn't, but WE DID help the game become a series that was worth picking up again didn't we? If you took the orginal fans away then its likely that FO-3 would have never been made, as it would not have been as popular.

I like how we are "elitist canon preachers" and that "they'd end up taking steps back just to appease a very small group" that kept the game alive and going untill Beth bought the rights to the game, and then butchred the already written lore/cannon of the game, the last vault to be finished, the way the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system has no meaning now.
How when the Enclave was destroyed, it pops back up on the east coast, how Harold and Bob some how managed to survive the trip to the east coast and then Bob magicly super sprouted into a grove.
On top of that, the only base that had F.E.V was marsoipa, but all of a sudden now a vualt has it also?

Changing all that is just a slap in the face for those of use who enjoyed the game and its story and background, the series was fine the way it was, and it would have been better if beth had left it alone untill some one like the makers of NWN could get it, you can't miss what you never had .

Yes Fallout-3 is a good game, but its Not a good fallout game, its more of a action shooter, with some light RPG choises.
Beth lied when they said that it would be close to the orginals, they lied when they said you would not be able to max all skills, they lied about the special system.

Ill see if I can find the older posts, I do clearly remember reading about the things I just said, and I remember that I used to be wraqed up in the hipe and support the game, don't belive me? check my post history.

It fails as a fallout game, but is good as a action shooter with some RPG things thrown in.

As a fallout game, and the #3 I give it a 5/10
as spin off I would have gave it a 8/10.

no, im wondering why people dont know what canon means.

as i said in my original post. people can not like stuff. im fine with that.

but please learn what canon is before you say that something goes against it.

Did I say something incorectly in the above post?

Canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is any material that is considered to be "genuine", or can be directly referenced as material produced by the original author or creator of a series.

The first Vault was built in Los Angeles, intended to demonstrate the viability of such a facility. The demonstration Vault was built beneath the city, within its limits and unlike other Vaults, wasn't part of the experiment. Most Vaults were completed by 2063, except for Vault 13, which was the last one to be completed.
Seeing the potential there, the Army sent its own people to secure the project and renamed it FEV: Forced Evolutionary Virus. Not content with mere immunity to disease, FEV would turn soldiers into abnormally strong and intelligent supermen. When testing on animals reached its logical conclusion, the US military moved FEV research to the Mariposa Military Base where secret testing on military prison inmates proceeded.


F.E.V was all moved to Mariposa, there was none of it anywahere else, and the base was destroyed in the first fallout's, beth could think of no other reason, no new Foe's and no orginal plot.
They ripped F.E.V to vault 87, borrowed almost all the plot of the first fallouts to make fallout 3 and then destroyed the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system.

Getting exiled, from fallout 1 ending
A freindly SM ( marcus )
Harold
BOS
SM army
Enclave get blowed up, from fallout2 ending
Slavers you can join.
F.E.V from 1/2

Some people are a littler harder on the game then I am, but I can see both sides, I used to support the game, now I wish it was just a spin off.
You can throw that nostaliga crap around all you want, its not that ( at least not for me ) its the plain and simple dumbing down of this game, and complete mockary of the orginal ones, heck even fallout tactics was closer to cannon IMO.

A lot of that post is pure opinion, especially concerning "right direction". If Tim Cain and Chris Taylor came out and said that they didn't consider Fallout 3 canon I'd side with them, as they're the original creators of Fallout and thus I believe that their opinion outweighs Bethesda's. Bethesda may have bought the license, but they certainly didn't create it so their word isn't worth as much as the folks who actually created the universe you've fallen in love with. That's my two cents, anyway.

Does it really matter that much, really?

Depends, I was just defeding us "elitist canon preachers" but in some place and on some things, it sure is.

Nah, I'll consider Fallout 3 and its DLC canon until the original creators say otherwise. There's no reason not to after all, it's just a game. :shrug:

Fallout 3 actually isn't that bad from a consistency perspective, Fallout Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel were much, much worse. Actually, I think Bethesda paid more attention to Fallout's canon than they generally do The Elder Scrolls' considering how creatures and armor look completely different in every new TES game.

Any change is just a scalar to you, isn't it ? Heh.

we can speculate all day about how things got to places on the east coast and how bethsoflt did this and that.

but this is the DLC sixction. meaning im talking about DLCs... not special, or other gameplay which has nothing to do with storyline canon...
you dont like what gamesas did with it. i get that, which again is what i said in my original post.


but ill say this. juse because something is unexplained doesnt mean that its out of canon..
and just cause you thought something was in one location or not present anymore doesnt necessarily mean its out of canon.
it is called a plot twist. writers that have series of books even use this, and they know the canon of their own storylines, dont they?

Wolfenstein and Doom don't have vertical dimension, you're stuck in 2D environments. But do you see any FPS players who want new FPS games to be like that again? That would be absolutely retarded. The difference is, people miss old Fallout elements for a reason. Not because they are nostalgic and elitist canon preachers. (most of them anyway)



Generally I agree with you but... Mockery? I was really upset with some parts of FO3 but even I wouldn't go that far. It's really a good game when you see it as an independent modern free roam post apocalyptic RPG, but as you said Tactics was much closer to Fallout canon. Bethesda has lots of questionable decisions.

"Mockery"? "Slap in the face"? It's a game, so the melodramatics are just ridiculous.

I'm capable of enjoying Fallout 3 without comparing it to FO1 and 2. It's a separate game and I don't require adherence to the dogma of the previous settings.
I liked the new Star Trek movie, partly because I didn't feel a need to compare it to what came before. I leave it to Comic Book Guy to rant on about "Worst. Movie. EVAR."

The entire issue of canon is only a concern to those who feel it's necessary to tie this game inexorably to the settings and events of those that came before it. I don't feel that necessity.

So you don't care about a sequel preserving and continuing the setting of the games that came before it ? Hm, explains a lot about things today.

i do care what canon is all about.. its enriches a game setting...


but i truuly feel that people have an unrealistically skewed view of that it means.

To the Canonist...

Totally and completely ridiculous..

First off the good people of BETHESDA wanted to make Fallout.. they'd tried to get the license for a while...

Find the video of the making of Fallout 3 before you go giving yourself credit for a game that has nothing to do with you...

Secondly.. I never played the two fallouts.. and I dont give a dang about what fits or doesnt and Im sure the tons of people who for them it is also the first experience in the Fallout world feel the same way.....

Fallout 3 is BETHESDA'S Retake on it.. whatever comes out now IS the canon.. THEIR canon..

Being abducted on an Alien ship sounds cool...

What game has ever come out where you are abducted on an alien ship anyway?

My God you people are unreal.. first you dont think theres gonna be DLC... then when you find theres two DLC you start complaining about something you have no idea about..

Could you be more clueless about everything?

prey for starters. im sure theres a lot.

ive dabbled in the old fallouts even tatics admitedly because i fell in love with fallout3 only soo i could graps the world of fallout better. im new to the series but i do care about cannon.
i cant understand yd u flame beth for bringing back old elements of the game like bos, enclave ectect because there part of the world if anything there a lack of new enemies soo the old fans wouldnt feel tottaly outta place.

as far as the fps perpective gos it progress u cant stay point an click semi turned based in this day and age. beside theres 3rd person if u want it (not that i use it)

u can arugue that its not canon but to me it is theres a lotta unexplained for one i wanna no whts going on in the eu, has the enclave tryed to take it over or is there some over group of bristish royalists trying to take over the wastes? theres a lotta unexplained backstory as far as i no i mean 90% of the words datas gone in a 2hour war.