Anybody sad about being TOLD they were the Dovahkiin? : V - Skyrim

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:48 am

Isn't that a bit like playing a Highlander video game and pretending your PC is not immortal?

No, it would be like playing a game set in Scotland and you happened not to be Duncan McCloud.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:07 pm

No, it would be like playing a game set in Scotland and you happened not to be Duncan McCloud.

Exactly. I'm glad i'm not the only one that can RP things that the game doesn't assume for me.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:17 pm

Not my character's story. In "open world" RPGs, my general opinion of all the stories the designers put into them is that they can take them all and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. Give me an interesting world, engaging and memorable characters populating it, and a set of complex and detailed game mechanics - and I'll write my own story, the way I like it.

I'm with you man! :hugs: but i think we are most definitely in the minority. :hehe:

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:55 am

No, it would be like playing a game set in Scotland and you happened not to be Duncan McCloud.

Well... I can see that; but what I meant was that the [Highlander] game considers the PC immortal (and grants power from Quickening, and resurrection) because the designers have you playing an immortal (Duncan, Connor, or other). Pretending he or she is not ~would not be reflected in the story or the outcomes of various events. Some (possibly mandatory) events would surely require the ability to rise from the dead or not progress the game. :shrug:

All I'm saying is that playing mortal (by ignoring this), is ... needlessly obstinate?

Is this not going to be similar with Skyrim?

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:40 pm

Well... I can see that; but what I meant is that the [Highlander] game considers the PC immortal (and grants power from Quickening, and resurrection) because the designers have you playing an immortal (Duncan, Connor, or other). Pretending he or she is not ~would not be reflected in the story or the outcomes of various events. Some (possibly mandatory) events would surely require the ability to rise from the dead or not progress the game. :shrug:

All I'm saying is that playing (by ignoring), is ... needlessly obstinate?

If I never start the MQ, Im sure that it wont be a big deal. I dont play RPGs, specifically ES games like linear story driven experiences. Its a single player tabletop medium in digital form for me. If some of my characters could meet up in Nirn, they would. Most of my RPs are not worthy, nor are they really interested in grand scheme things. That's the beauty of ES to me, its that open. Honestly, I need no story, I can make my own. Some of my characters dont even start in prison, they start wherever I say they did.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:32 am

Okay, but what about it exactly? Those aspects are pluses in my book; and [IMO] in no way limit role playing ~even though they do limit the role.

These are the RPGs that came out in recent years, so I don't know why do you keep saying how the main character in RPGs nowadays have less "role" in the games.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:29 am

These are the RPGs that came out in recent years, so I don't know why do you keep saying how the main character in RPGs nowadays have less "role" in the games.

Well, I usually include Witcher as an exception; and I've never played Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:49 am

If I never start the MQ, Im sure that it wont be a big deal. I dont play RPGs, specifically ES games like linear story driven experiences. Its a single player tabletop medium in digital form for me. If some of my characters could meet up in Nirn, they would. Most of my RPs are not worthy, nor are they really interested in grand scheme things. That's they beauty of ES to me, its that open. Honestly, I need no story, I can make my own.

See I find playing the game while persuing that kind of creative fantasy more limiting than freeing. I mean I already have the resources to adapt the elderscrolls setting however I want without ever buying the game. Just by writing or jeez even sitting somewhere and imagining it all go down in my head, then I'm not limited by what the game world is capable of. But I just don't see the point in buying a game and pretending half of it's content doesn't exist, that to me is like buying a book and then rewriting the ending. Which I mean all power to ya if thats your thing I just don't get it.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:51 am

See I find playing the game while persuing that kind of creative fantasy more limiting than freeing. I mean I already have the resources to adapt the elderscrolls setting however I want without ever buying the game. Just by writing or jeez even sitting somewhere and imagining it all go down in my head, then I'm not limited by what the game world is capable of. But I just don't see the point in buying a game and pretending half of it's content doesn't exist, that to me is like buying a book and then rewriting the ending. Which I mean all power to ya if thats your thing I just don't get it.

Ahem... ah.. Me Too.
:laugh:

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:35 pm

See I find playing the game while persuing that kind of creative fantasy more limiting than freeing. I mean I already have the resources to adapt the elderscrolls setting however I want without ever buying the game. Just by writing or jeez even sitting somewhere and imagining it all go down in my head, then I'm not limited by what the game world is capable of. But I just don't see the point in buying a game and pretending half of it's content doesn't exist, that to me is like buying a book and then rewriting the ending. Which I mean all power to ya if thats your thing I just don't get it.

But Im not Larping, Im using in game features to realize my build. There's nothing limiting about that. Im probably playing builds that most wouldnt even think of. When you get a few hundred hours out of your game after doing everything with one character, Ill be getting thousands upon thousands through my dozens of unique characters. So yeah, there's nothing limiting about that, other than limiting my self to a certain build and not playing a JOATs. There's nothing wrong with not starting a main quest. your basically advocating that Mages should go through fighting guilds and Thieves should go through Mages guilds etc. If thats how you play, then ah salute, but I stick to who my characters are. and all of my characters are not Dragonborn. Im actually getting more out of my game than you and there's nothing limiting about that.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:40 pm

See I find playing the game while persuing that kind of creative fantasy more limiting than freeing. I mean I already have the resources to adapt the elderscrolls setting however I want without ever buying the game. Just by writing or jeez even sitting somewhere and imagining it all go down in my head, then I'm not limited by what the game world is capable of. But I just don't see the point in buying a game and pretending half of it's content doesn't exist, that to me is like buying a book and then rewriting the ending. Which I mean all power to ya if thats your thing I just don't get it.

This is exactly how I see it.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:02 am

No i'm not. I'm not interested a movie just going by its name. I want to see content and incredibly minor plotlines; pretty much like we have so far. And @someone... when you don't know the gender of a person- generally you refer to it as a "he"... if I'm not mistaken.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:01 am

But Im not Larping, Im using in game features to realize my build.

I can understand this, and I don't think anything bad about it, but those games that I've played this way were generally designed for that kind of play ~something like 'Eye of the Beholder' or 'Icewind Dale'.

I guess that I unconsciously react badly to incongruity in RPGs; and when the NPCs don't acknowledge the custom build in ways that I find believable. I generally stick to the story, as the game is typically geared to react well to the anticipated path(s).

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:38 pm

I can understand this, and I don't think anything bad about it, but those games that I've played this way were generally designed for that kind of play ~something like 'Eye of the Beholder' or 'Icewind Dale'.

No game is better designed for this than ES. It basically is a digital tabletop-esque medium. Some people play it like a linear RPG, or even a linear action game, but I dont. I use my imagination and in game content to realize dozens of builds that are more than just 'stereotypical berserk Nord dragonborn'. I think its funny people would say thats limiting when its really more freedom than they will ever get from ES playing it in linear fashion.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:29 pm

But Im not Larping, Im using in game features to realize my build. There's nothing limiting about that. Im probably playing builds that most wouldnt even think of. When you get a few hundred hours out of your game after doing everything with one character, Ill be getting thousands upon thousands through my dozens of unique characters. So yeah, there's nothing limiting about that, other than limiting my self to a certain build and not playing a JOATs. There's nothing wrong with not starting a main quest. your basically advocating that Mages should go through fighting guilds and Thieves should go through Mages guilds etc. If thats how you play, then ah salute, but I stick to who my characters are. and all of my characters are not Dragonborn. Im actually getting more out of my game than you and there's nothing limiting about that.

Good point, ending up as the head of the fighters guild, mages guild and thieves guild with the same character in Oblivion didn't make much sense to me, i would have rather done that with different characters each time.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:33 pm

Exactly. I'm glad i'm not the only one that can RP things that the game doesn't assume for me.

"Dragonborne" allows the same flexibility as "Neravarine" anyway. You can't control your birth, but you control your destiny, and can reject the MQ, thus not even becoming the "Hero". So to speak.

The real issue, will be in how the MQ is set up, in Oblivion, you're kind of pushed into the thick of things from literally 1min14seconds into the game. Even though you had this "Victim of Circumstance" sort of thing going, it overall was much worse than I possibly could have imagined. The MQ just grabs your character and doesn't let go. And not in the good "I have a huge fish on the line" Jeremy Wade kind of way, the "Oh my god I'm being drug into the Nile River by a crocodile!" kind of way.

Fallout 3 was a lot better. It gave you reason, but you had to come up with the Motivation. Maybe you didn't give two flying [censored] about Liam Neeson? And then New Vegas fumbled it again in both design and setup, making it actually slightly worse than Oblivion in that regard, though at least the role of "Courier" isn't all up in your face with destiny and world-ending calamity. If only the world had been built as less a facade of openness.

No game is better designed for this than ES. It basically is a digital tabletop-esque medium. Some people play it like a linear RPG, or even a linear action game, but I dont. I use my imagination and in game content to realize dozens of builds that are more than just 'stereotypical berserk Nord dragonborn'. I think its funny people would say thats limiting when its really more freedom than they will ever get from ES playing it in linear fashion.

It certainly was. With Oblivion, I don't feel that so much holds ground anymore. Mostly because of how they changed the way the narrative is delivered, because of all the "Complaints" that Morrowind lacked any "Narrative urgency". Nonwriters writing story. go figure how that turned out. Let's totally make pacing non-existent! Perfect storee brah.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:50 am

Good point, ending up as the head of the fighters guild, mages guild and thieves guild with the same character in Oblivion didn't make much sense to me, i would have rather done that with different characters each time.

And if you do want to do everything with one character, there's nothing wrong with that, I mean its your/their game. I just get more out of it. Every time my Bar wench would go down to the river to wash clothes for example, there would be an adventure, an unscripted, non linear adventure that usually ended in quite the story. Like when the Black Bow bandits tried to kidnap her and she killed half of them with a rake.

It certainly was. With Oblivion, I don't feel that so much holds ground anymore. Mostly because of how they changed the way the narrative is delivered, because of all the "Complaints" that Morrowind lacked any "Narrative urgency". Nonwriters writing story. go figure how that turned out. Let's totally make pacing non-existent! Perfect storee brah.

I just didnt go to Kvatch, but they could have made it less "hand-holdy", so you didnt inadvertently start the main quest without knowing it.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:39 am

Wasn't it very, very obvious that we where going to be the Dhovakiin anyway? I mean really? I would have been more surprised if we WEREN'T

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:57 pm

No game is better designed for this than ES. It basically is a digital tabletop-esque medium. Some people play it like a linear RPG, or even a linear action game, but I dont. I use my imagination and in game content to realize dozens of builds that are more than just 'stereotypical berserk Nord dragonborn'. I think its funny people would say thats limiting when its really more freedom than they will ever get from ES playing it in linear fashion.

Oh I like the idea, but how does it play out in town? Oblivion seemed to me to be a sandbox with minor amusemants [side quests] scattered around a main path. By ignoring the main path, I see only those minor quest, trips to the strore, the Arena, and respawning dungeons; but no grand mission in 'life' for the PC; its all rather mundane ~a grind almost.

I like TES for the tools, but the game itself has never held my attention long.

Every time my Bar wench would go down to the river to wash clothes for example, there would be an adventure, an unscripted, non linear adventure that usually ended in quite the story. Like when the Black Bow bandits tried to kidnap her and she killed half of them with a rake.

Nice :tops:

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:03 am

And if you do want to do everything with one character, there's nothing wrong with that, I mean its your/their game. I just get more out of it. Every time my Bar wench would go down to the river to wash clothes for example, there would be an adventure, an unscripted, non linear adventure that usually ended in quite the story. Like when the Black Bow bandits tried to kidnap her and she killed half of them with a rake.

I just didnt go to Kvatch, but they could have made it less "hand-holdy", so you didnt inadvertently start the main quest without knowing it.

I'm really looking forward to the radiant AI, hopefully it will keep the quests coming long after the main game has ended, it should add more longevity and keep the world interesting.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:37 pm

Oh I like the idea, but how does it play out in town? Oblivion seemed to me to be a sandbox with minor amusemants [side quests] scattered around a main path. By ignoring the main path, I see only those minor quest, trips to the strore, the Arena, and respawning dungeons; but no grand mission in 'life' for the PC; its all rather mundane ~a grind almost.

I like TES for the tools, but the game itself has never held my attention long.

Morrow and Dagger was better at this, but its just RPing. No different really than a tabletop game that you played by yourself. I cant think of any other RPG that allows you to do this. Maybe Minecraft, but Ive never played it.

I'm really looking forward to the radiant AI, hopefully it will keep the quests coming long after the main game has ended, it should add more longevity and keep the world interesting.

I could definitely see RAI and RST a good way to keep to your build, as in doing quests that fit your character, instead of playing Colombo and trying to figure out i this is somthing my character would or wouldnt do, without looking at a guide.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:18 pm

Morrow and Dagger was better at this, but its just RPing. No different really than a tabletop game that you played by yourself. I cant think of any other RPG that allows you to do this. Maybe Minecraft, but Ive never played it.

It might sound odd, but for that style, I prefer a more abstract game than TES:Oblivion; Ravenloft, http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/realms_of_arkania_1_2 and Bard's Tale 1-3 comes to mind. :chaos:

Spoiler

The first game in the Realms of Arkania trilogy was the Blade of Destiny. It combines all the best characteristics of that times RPG’s, like an extensive story line, first person view mode, cave exploring, scenery and (of course) freedom over your own actions. This game was an immediate hit when it was first released, forcing the producers to make a new English version almost over night! (The game was originally intended only for Germany). This delayed the sequel to the game, Star Trail, for a whole year.

The game is incredibly huge for the time it was made. A lot of work was put into creating the world, including history, geography, folklore, races and NPC’s (non-player characters).

The story is epic, as all RPG’s… You play the role of six different people; all looking for adventure and fame that arrives in the city of Thorwal. After a while, you are sent to the real quest of the game: hunt for the sword of legendary warlord Hetman Hyggelik. In order to find it, you will have to travel the world in search for pieces of a map, drawn by one of Hyggelik’s warriors. This map, naturally, shows the location of the sword.

This game partially relies on its manual. You will need the manual if you want to make your own characters (recommended), as it holds the minimum requirements in the attribute values of each type of hero.

The reason for the game getting a four is due to the music that can sometimes get on your nerves, and the ranged combat system. (You can only fire in a straight line. This goes for magic as well). Another thing that is confusing is the fact that all the shops, inns, taverns and weaponsmiths look exactly the same from the outside.

Apart from this… the game is good, and a nice way to start off the trilogy. Have fun!

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:03 pm

But Im not Larping, Im using in game features to realize my build. There's nothing limiting about that. Im probably playing builds that most wouldnt even think of. When you get a few hundred hours out of your game after doing everything with one character, Ill be getting thousands upon thousands through my dozens of unique characters. So yeah, there's nothing limiting about that, other than limiting my self to a certain build and not playing a JOATs. There's nothing wrong with not starting a main quest. your basically advocating that Mages should go through fighting guilds and Thieves should go through Mages guilds etc. If thats how you play, then ah salute, but I stick to who my characters are. and all of my characters are not Dragonborn. Im actually getting more out of my game than you and there's nothing limiting about that.

I never said that I'd only play with one character. What I'm saying is that all the characters I will play are just going to be different versions of the Dovahkiin. So will all of yours because that's the way the game is made, no matter what you create in character creation or how you play the game the protagonist of Skyrim is the Dovahkiin. You and people who have the same style of play will be pretending that this is not the case, that your character doesn't absorb the souls of dragons or use those souls to power/aquire dragon shouts etc... My point is that I don't get why you would bother doing that when you could probably come up with a scenario you find more interesting on your own without having to jump through the hoops the game throws your way.

Though actually I'll amend that, after thinking about it I do see a reason. By playing the game you are still being challenged while Rp'ing in the setting, so i guess I kind of understand. It still seems like more work to find the fun in your game and I'd be more inclined to adapt my RP to the games parameters than the other way around but that's just me.

» Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:53 pm

I never said that I'd only play with one character. What I'm saying is that all the characters I will play are just going to be different versions of the Dovahkiin. So will all of yours because that's the way the game is made, no matter what you create in character creation or how you play the game the protagonist of Skyrim is the Dovahkiin. You and people who have the same style of play will be pretending that this is not the case, that your character doesn't absorb the souls of dragons or use those souls to power/aquire dragon shouts etc... My point is that I don't get why you would bother doing that when you could probably come up with a scenario you find more interesting on your own without having to jump through the hoops the game throws your way.

Though actually I'll amend that, after thinking about it I do see a reason. By playing the game you are still being challenged while Rp'ing in the setting, so i guess I kind of understand. It still seems like more work to find the fun in your game and I'd be more inclined to adapt my RP to the games parameters than the other way around but that's just me. In your second paragraph I see your starting to see my reasons for doing so.

And mine wont. And there's nothing limiting about that, if anything, its actually more freedom. My characters will be whatever I say they are, so no, all will not be Dragonborn and Im sure that if I dont start the MQ, the game wont try to force it on me either. Honestly, its becasue Ive been playing RPGs for nearly 30 years. The linear and cliche bore me, I need novel builds and novel games with freedom. Anything less loses my interest. Its just RPing to me really.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:44 am

I dont mind pre knowing any spoilers, im still gona kill every1 i see regardless of plot.