first off sorry for the wall of text but i think its worth reading at least some of this

i'm sorry but the more i watch this the more i worry about online, they truly seem to have no knowledge about online play in FPS games. Look at halo, COD or crysis 2. In ANY of those games would you see what happens at 0:20 on the new video found on the official site homepage (jumps up and shoots the guy in the back) or at 0:50 when he hacks the turret. This is NOT how online works, yes people camp like that but they dont stand still facing one way, they are constantly moving and even when sneaking up on campers, chances are they WILL see you first.

This game has some amazing idea's and i truly hope they all work as they hope they do but the sad fact of the matter is this: players ruin games with 'built in tactics' by exploiting them or ignoring them all together. The problem with all and any online game these days is the childish / competitive gameplay used by THE PLAYERS not the game, its the same with EVERY game and brink is relying wayyyy too much on people to play how they THINK they will play and imo its a huge mistake and chances are this game will fail because of that, i hope i'm wrong, i really really do.


Aside from online this game looks really nice, but its online where it really should shine. From everything i've seen it seems you require A LOT of teamwork to excel at this game and thats the one thing FPS gamers lack. Every FPS rewards you for working as a team because mostly thats the only way to win but that isnt enough, people would rather rack up 100's of kills watching people die before them then sneak into a base and steal a flag, sprinting off with a teammate and somehow gaming company's NEED to make this what online is about. Brink has some very good idea's like i mentioned earlier, I havn't really looked into it, im not even sure if there is any info on it just yet but my guess is brink will have a leveling system just like every other game and reward you for doing certain things, like the classes all have different 'missions' to do in a game which is a huge step in the right direction but i really dont think its enough, especially if its just as beneficial to go around killing everyone. It seems as if brink is trying to FORCE people to work as a team, im just not totally sure they are doing this the right way. For example (THIS IS PURE SPECULATION FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND HEARD AND NOT AN OFFICIAL EXAMPLE) say there are 4 classes at the start of a game with the main objective being break into the enemy base and destroy the control room (only able to do as a soldier) with the following objective or 'missions' for each class:

'soldier - heavy weapons moves slow. objective - break down base door to proceed to destroying control room'

'hacker - fast moving and agile (making this class able to get 'over' the gate and into the base), light weapons, SMG's. objective - hack the door to make it weaker, kill enemy's inside the base.'

'medic/supplier - fast moving but not very agile, assault rifle weaponry. objective - revive players and get ammo supplies from near the base door'

'sniper' - fast moving and agile (again making this class able to get over the gate and into the base), sniper weapon. objective - snipe the computer in communications tower behind the bases door to weaken the door for the soldier (ideally there are 2 points in which you can see the tower to snipe it)


now in theory this sounds like a particularly fun objective game type with the opposing team having similar objectives but the opposite as they would be defending. My point is this - in my eyes this is what Brink is expecting of players, to work as a team and get the individual objectives done to complete the main one, fair enough. Now there are 6 v 6 players team A is attacking and B is defending, 5 players from team A chose the hacker class for the SMG as they know from games such as COD and crysis this is a fast killing weapon and effective at close range, the other person on team A chose the sniper class. Team B did an optimal setup for this game type having 2 hackers and 1 of each of the other classes. Team A jump over the wall to kill other players, none are going for the objective as there is no soldier on the team so they think 'whats the point, i might as well get kills' the sniper is at a high point just sniping anyone he see's, hasn't even looked at his objective so is oblivious to it. Team B at this point are getting constantly killed by 5 fast moving, fast shooting players trying to spawn kill. The medic has no chance at close range because of the SMG's power at close range compared to an assault rifle and after changing to a hacker for a few deaths, eventually leaves the game. Even with the soldiers increased health the 5 hackers are mowing him down in seconds and the sniper has no hope. After a painful 15 - 20 mins the game ends with half of team B quitting long before.

Do you see my point? No matter how much they incorporate 'missions' or teamwork style tactics it wont change the fundamental flaw's of online play - the player. People strive to win, its in our human nature to be competitive and in FPS's all people seem to want to do is kill kill kill, camping and spawnkilling all day long because it makes them feel like a god having +10 k/d every game. Adding objectives and the things brink has done wont change that, it'll make it worse unless they have done something to really really make you want to do these objectives like HUGE exp bonuses. And of cause it all comes down to balance of how the game feels and if each class is balanced, if a class like the hacker worked as i have said it does (highly unlikely ) and outkills every other class, why would anyone use any other?

in the 'somthing for everybody' trailer i saw a while back im sure i heard the guy say 1 hit kills are not in this game and they are fixing everything that is wrong with other FPS games, he seemed to actually HATE snipers and constantly swore about them basically saying in brink there are no snipers or there are snipers but they wont kill in 1 shot which imo is VERY naive, yes its annoying when people are too good at games and can one shot you every time, is making snipers not kill in 1 shot solving this issue? not really, if they can one shot headshot like on cod or halo almost every kill, they can certainly pull of 2 - 3 shots quicker then you can think on brink, it doesnt solve the issue it just makes it more frustrating because you KNOW if you were shot in the back with a sniper you are about to die and there is nothing you can do about it. he also said if your big you use huge guns and cant do acrobatic stuff like scaling walls etc but if your skinny you can but you use small weapons and a knife so you can just zip around really fast knifing people, kinda contradictory isnt it? take out one hit kills but allow people to sprint circles around you knifing the hell out of you (imo MUCH more annoying then snipers when people did this on MW2) sorry to all the fans of this game but to me, that guy especially, likes a certain playstyle of games and are trying to FORCE people to play it how they want to, and unless they are anticipating this and have worked REALLY hard to balance the game then this game WILL fail, this next quote from the same video really doesn't fill me with hope "....theres something for everybody, and we actually think its pretty well balanced...." This game NEEEDS to be more then 'pretty well balanced' and i hope it is.

Ok, first off welcome to the forums here is a turtle :turtle: and a copy of the http://www.fragworld.org/frag/brink/the-fragworld-brink-compendium.html read it, it is all the information that we currently have.

With the classes you said that you think that each class will have different weapons and speeds. This is incorrect, there are 3 body types which you will learn from the brink bible, and each body type changes what your speed, weapon choices ect. are. So classes do NOT change weapons speed ect.

The team-based gameplay is not just you will not win if you don't play as a team, it is you will not progress your character through the ranks and you will not win the match. Basicly they have set up the experience points in a way that killing someone will get you a very small amount of xp in comparrison to doing objectives to help the team.

You mentioned campers and snipers, "sniper rifles" are not in this game the same way they are in others. Instead we have "Light rifles", they are not 1 shot kills (except in certain situations), you can still sniper, though it is a support role, damaging instead of killing. As for campers, this game is fast paced, unlike COD. You will not be able to sit in a corner and camp, the action is two fast and you will just get killed, and as i stated before, killing will not get you experience.

Another thing supporting teamplay is that k/d/r is not shown anywhere in the game, you can count youself but nobody will care. The scoreboards at the end of the game show experince points gained, most of which are earned through objectives. the person who helps the team most will be the person first in the leader board.

SD know what they are doing, trust them.

Hello new guy. Welcome to the forums. Have a turtle :turtle: Okay. So basically you are worried that people won't go for objectives and just use abilities to put down the enemy and won't focus on playing for the team? Highly unlikely. This game rewards you with the worst amount of experience to level up. In one of your stories you said what if someone won't play as the soldier because they will be too busy killing? Do you know how much XP you get for completing that objective? About 300 xp compared to the simple 20xp you get with each kill. Believe me when I say this, if games like CoD gave players 300 points for completing objectives and less then 100 points per kill, do you really think they are going to go all Rambo for kills? I mean of course It is an FPS so very obviously, people will always hunt and kill the opposition but that won't be the only thing they will do. Games like CoD reward sooo little for completing Objectives and trying to win and sooo much just for shooting some guy that has nothing to do with winning the mission.

The knife isn't even 1 hit kill. I kind of think you're exaggerating extremely. They are not FORCING you to play any certain way, which is why it's class based and with different body types and abilities and gun customization.They DO however, try to stop you from being a lone wolf, or being an over exaggerated gun toting badass, or a camper, and try to get you play strategically. But they don't force anything. If you want to noobtube, there are grenade launchers. if you want to rush you can pick a light body type, if you want to go lone wolf you can granted that you won't earn as much xp as a team-player. if you want to snipe there are snipers. Even though they are not as strong as regular snipers they are more meant for taking enemy life down and assisting your team.

And believe me after a whole YEAR of delay, I'm pretty sure Brink will be balanced amazingly. The dev was probably just being humble. He's not going to go "Oh man our game is 100% balanced" because if they do the players will expect too highly and be angry if the game isnt 100% perfect.

No offense but I'd just like to say your fears seem poorly based at best. A video clip or two of someone getting a lucky jump on a player shouldn't really be a basis as to how the developers might be trying to wrongly push people to play a certain way. That being said, the classes are Soldier, Engineer, Medic, and Operative. The classes don't decide which weapon you can take, but rather your players size. Lights can only take SMG's, pistols, and light rifles, while mediums can choose from all of the light weapons plus the medium weapons which include the assault rifles and shotguns. The Heavy size player can choose from all the medium and light weaponry and also has access to the heavy weapons.

That being said your fears about weapons governing what class people choose is not something you need to worry about anymore. As far as a specific class being required for a game mission, all of the objectives can probably be completed regardless of which class you have. A lot of the "objectives" in game are side missions which are not necessary to complete the main objective, but still help the team in some manner. Furthermore, there are probably multiple avenues towards completing a main objective. For example, lets say the front gate needs to be opened so the bomb diffusion robot can get through; All of the classes probably have a way to help open the gate. The assault class can plant a charge to blow it open, the operative can sneak past the gate to open it from within enemy territory... or perhaps it can simply be captured like a control point, and once you control that point you can safely open the gate. Some of this could be wild speculation, but I'm going to place my confidence on the fact that as a developer, Splash Damage probably thought this through quite thoroughly to avoid such silly mistakes as making it impossible to complete a mission just because all the players decided to be medics for the lolz.

Hope that alleviates some of your worries... now all I have to do is wait a month and a half till the game comes out <_<

:turtle: FEAR MY TURTLE ARMY. ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND. :turtle:
:turtle: :turtle: :turtle: :turtle: :turtle: :turtle: :turtle: :turtle:

rather than repeating what everyone has already said...i feel you are judging this game with barely any idea behind what is actually in the game and how it goes about doing things. read the brink bible that was given to you by calypsoau then come back and we will discuss any fears you may have then

ok thanks for the feedback guys and enlightening me a little more on how brink work's. As i said (i think i did anyway ) i have only watched the videos on gametrailers and not actually looked for details about the game as i figured they wouldn't be released, i guess i was wrong

from what you have all said it does sound like it will work and i really do hope it does, i've just gotten my hopes up with other games so i wont hold my breath. I will definetly be getting brink though and hope to see you online

No problem bro. Most of the members of the Brink community, including me, have all had our worries about wether or not Brink will live up to it's hype but we trust the developers will provide us with a game that's worth every penny and more. And as for all of your fears about people over dosing on kills, I haven't met one person on these forums that seemed to be a lone wolf killer with no sense of teamwork. Oh and what system do you have?

welcome new guy everyone above covers most of the basics and the bible will break everything down for you. As a player of almost every fps on the market since counter strike (or 007 for n64 if that counts =P) i can say with full confidence that SD has the main stuff down. They are truly fixing alot of the main problems with todays fps's. Takin 1 shot kills from snipers does fix the sniping problem and trust me if a sniper shoots you there is plenty of stuff you can do have you not seen the movement in the game?There is a thread already about the snipers specifically you should check it out if thats one of your main concerns. The scenarios you brought up could pose legitimate problems but after you read the compendium you will see that SD has addressed all the major ones.

On a side note i keep seeing people talking about how in cod they dont award more points for objectives then kills. All i can say to that is people should not speak of what they do not know. In almost every single "objective" based gametype in cod (Sabotage, Demolition, Headquarters, Cap the Flag, Domination, and Search and Destroy) you are awarded anywhere from triple to maybe even six times more xp than a kill for completing an objective (Capping a Flag, Planting a bomb and destroying a location, Defusing a bomb, capping a node in domination, etc). So his concern about kids not working as a team is quite logical. And no im not a cod really devoted fan i hate black ops.

Just to add to what else has already, but mostly about camping.
The lower the bullet damage, the less camping will be. Very high bullet damage usually means whoever sees the other and fires first usually gets the kill, which is why.. "certain games" are infamous for their campers. In games with low bullet damage, campers aren't gone, but if you are more skilled than you will manage to kill the camper, because gun fights are more about skill than who sees who first.

Indeed.



This is why people need to read the Bible before posting.

Even in those objective modes, the reward for playing objectively is less than the reward for racking up kills. In a game like such as domination you only get 150 points for capture (neutral) or 250 for capturing the enemys while each kill is 100. Those playing for XP ignore the objective because technically it's more XP, it is much easier and faster to gain XP through kills. In a game like Search and Destroy or Sabotage, the massive amount of XP (1000) can only occur once before the match ends. Each kill in S&D is 500 so again, often people ignore the object and camp to get more XP by just killing people.

It would seem in BRINK, even for those who are only playing to quickly gain XP, the more beneficial way to play is to complete objectives because the XP for kills is dramatically less than the XP for the multiple objectives.

Not really comparable. CoD has extremely high bullet damage, and earning anywhere from 15 to 30 kills in a game mode like domination is relatively easy. By comparison, standing next to a flag and waiting for it to change color just isn't as efficient a means of harvesting xp.

In CoD you get say, 100XP for a kill and maybe 250 or 300XP for capping a flag. So... 1 Objective = 3 kills.

In Brink it's more like 20XP for a kill and 300XP or more for a wide variety of objectives. So that's 1 Objective = 15 kills.

Quite the difference there.

/facepalm

Having now watched this video of which you speak I feel better prepared to respond.

Richard Ham is clearly R&G, and likely newer to the genre than some, and it's something you can tell everytime he says anything. He wasn't hating the sniper though, he was hating the fact that the sniper could get away with it whether it be because of a failure of map design leaving him completely protected, a failure of teammates unable to counter him, or a failure of the weapons because they were "so powerful". That's what he hopes they have balanced.

Every player of every style can look at Brink and see possibilities within that style allowed for by the game. They're all there. The problem is going to be whether or not the majority of the community can accept that and are willing to accept that sometimes it just isn't going to go their way when they face off against another style, but there are ways to change the outcome the next time you fight.

Let me paint that statement another color and bounce it back at you.

Ahem... "Look at this apple! You don't see an orange peel on it, do you!? Obviously, apples know better than to have a stupid orange peel, so why do oranges have an orange peel?"

:spotted owl:

Any chance you could explain which bits of that repainted statement are which?

As for the fear about team b spawn killing, the spawns have invincible autoturrets, and if team A sticks together (spawning is in "waves" btw) they'll probably be fine, unless B attacks in a coordinated way.

Well, first off, the game rewards you more for teamwork then for kills. You get 25xp for a full kill. You get about 150-200xp for reviving. As a soldier, you get about 500xp for planting the objective. So if your going for kills. "Hey, I GOT 20 kills, thats 500xp right?" "Hey, I planted 1 bomb and got 500xp." People in COD go for kills because ultimately, that looks good on your KD and gets you at the top of the score board. Same goes for killzone and I think Crisis.

The game ranks you by XP. There is no KD. If a guy has no kills and 40 revives, he'll be above the soldier who gave out nothing and got 100 kills. He'll end up being rewarded more.

Classes do not restrict weapons. I know you said you don't know how classes and weapons work. But heres how it works.

You choose a weight and a class. There are 3 weights: light, medium and heavy. You may choose any weight to use with any class. Light medic, medium engineer, heavy operative, medium soldier, heavy engineer, any class with any weight.

Lights have lower health, lower ability bars and can use SMGs/Light Rifles and pistols/machine pistols/revolvers for sidearms. The gain less hitboxes, faster movement speed, more smart abilities and faster smart abilities. Mediums are....well medium. They have medium health, medium ability bars and can use an assault rifle, medium weight Grenade launchers or medium weight shot guns as a primary and SMGs/Light rifles. Heavies have the largest ability bars, the most health and can use heavy weapons such as LMGs, mini guns, Grenade launchers and heavy/full auto shotguns. So, people can choose a class for abilities they like. A medic can use a shotgun if he like with an SMG sidearm if he's medium.

Melee does not OHK. It will OHK a incapacitated opponent, but not in general.

Now, onto the subject of the turrents, they can be hacked from a distance.


I'm sure you've gotten many replies by now. Im just contributing mine.

Any other concerns?

Ability bars/supplies/pips are not bodytype exclusive they ALL have the same amount it doesnt change a light has the same as a heavy at the same level

Oh, thanks for the correction.

my only fear is that people are going to be awesome with the SMART and i'll be like "wait, i cant get over this pipe"

Practice makes perfect.

actually on all objective modes except Search n Destroy you only get 50 points a kill. As far as domination goes you also get 150 points for defending a node which as i said is 3 times what you get for a kill. As far as search goes half the objective is just to kill the other team and by doing so you would win the round anyway so yes a kill is 500 its also beneficial to the main objective more so than some of the other objective based game types. As a 14th prestige with 16 days played i play alot of team tactical (mix of objective based game types). and laugh as i beat people not only in the end result but also with my score by actually playing the objective. The amount of kills you would have to have to beat someones score who is actually playing the objective is quite high with the exception of search n destroy but like i said killing is half the objective.

No doubt brink does extend on this idea quite a bit but i think you guys really dont understand it is never more beneficial just to get kills in any cod objective based game type im sorry as i have said before im 14th prestige with 16 days played and i have never been outscored in an objective mode by some guy just trying to get kills. And again its is 50 xp per kill in every objective based game mode not 100 ... i can gladly show anyone what i mean GT- Dub5ac send me a message if you want to play.

Heading over to Best Buy today to pre-order this. I'm more of a team work oriented player and this game has me really interested. It looks like the rounds/missions are really going to be successful if the player is able to identify what the team needs and adapt his/her playstyle accordingly to accomplish the goal by meshing well with the choices other players have made with their characters.