It isn't, really. I don't know, maybe people have played too much Dragon Age or something. The presence of classes in TES has never really had any significant limiting factors (well, except for in Arena, but that's a different thing altogether).

Speaking of mods, I think the best character development system in a TES game still goes to Morrowind with GCD.

Never used a "class" in Oblivion (made a custom set of Major skills, to metagame my stat gains), so.... no, don't miss them. :shrug:

Nope. It was nothing but a constraint. The game is far more adaptive now. I love it.

Classes, who cares about them. I'm glad they are gone.

I miss chosen skills that increased your level while non-selected skills did not. The class system, however, was superfluous and unnecessary to me.

Not even a little, it hasn't changed the way i play at all. The only thing that has changed is i'm not beeing punnished/not getting the most of my charecter by grinding skills i don't wanto use.
If i decide i wanto be a barbarian i do barbarian things, simple as that. I don't need an ingame menu to confirm that my character is a barbarian or tell me what i can and can't use.
Was the same in the previous game anyway, just abit slower.

Not whining, but you guys are really missing the point about calsses. It wasn't there to restrict you. It was there so the background you made up to your character will be implemented when you start playing the game.

The fact some people are not experienced enough to know what they want to play and misschoose a class - big boo hoo. It was never a big deal to start a new character.
Also - why not combining the two systems? You can start from "nothing" or start with a class. Why the hate on classes?

TES never really had "classes" to begin with. They were more like archetype suggestions, but you could always make your own skillset.
And you still can make your own skillset.
So, your argument is quite invalid.

And, yes. Like most of us... I have missed a few classes the past week since release

Yes I do.
Too few skills and they level too fast, no attributes, no birthsigns, no classes.
Its hard to make a good roleplay when all your characters are pigeonholed into a singular playstyle.
We are left now with rogue, warrior, mage, and that is not good.

The thing is that classes still very much exist in this game. They are just labeled as "race" now. In Morrowind and Oblivion you picked classes to receive a starting buff to them that didn't count towards your level. All skills start at base 15 now where they were base 5 in Oblivion (if memory serves) and I can't remember the base in Morrowind. 5 skills get a +5 buff bringing them up to 20 and one gets a +10 bringing it up to 25. You then pick a stone that increase the rate at which a set of skills increases. A set of skills that tie into being either combat, stealth or magic.

The classes still very much exist, the only change now is that the game is more forgiving if you want to take a combat race (Nord for example) and make a mage out of them.

chose a class and i chose a starsign!

my character is a mage with the mage birthsign

the game has classes

i dont understand the question!

Not really. I thought classes were useless in Oblivion to be honest, because I never saw the point in a class unless it granted you specific bonuses based on your class choics (Like a D&D game).

Infact, the only thing I kind of miss are attributes... but thats for a different reason, and hardly applicable to this discussion.

Not really. Really you still define your own custom class, difference is you do it as you level instead of before. The system they have here in Skyrim works much better than those in previous games. I always found classes in a game not based around group combat rather silly anyways.

I don't understand where this mentality came from... I've never heard of anybody complaining about being forced into a class-specific role in the previous games, and even in those you got to completely customize your own class down to a T... Is this another one of those console generation anomalies where people think its better because it gives them less options and freedom?

I think the real absurdity is that this guy believes that min/maxing is gone in Skyrim lol. If anything, it's worse now.

In my opinion, the whole attributes, skills and classes system was too much based on checking menus and calculating skill raises for level up. In Skyrim, you don't need to spend forever going over your attributes and skills, you just play the game! In Oblivion, you were always hesitant about leveling up because you were scared to miss out on +5 Endurance, Agility or Intelligence. In Skyrim, you don't need to worry about anything. Im at the point where I ignore my skills - who cares? The only thing that you still need to think about are the perks, but most of em come naturally when you know what you want to play.

The only thing I would love is a way to remove the skill increase "message". Kinda feels weird. Maybe someone will make a mod

The custom classes gave you plenty of freedom and at the same time it added another reason to go through the game more than once.

In skyrim classes doesnt matter much, what really stops me from playing it more than once is quests having the exactly the same outcome despite of how you may choose to act.

Classes in Skyrim are just as deep as they were in previous games (aka not at all). It's always been use what skills you use. If anything, classes are more defined now than in previous games because you can't get every perk.

No

and from an RP prospective it is much easier without being tired down to X number of major skills.

I however wouldnt mind more skill restrictions on accessing content.

From a roleplaying perspective, for combat and thief skills, I'd say the starting skill is right. You never need to have swung a mace at someone before to be able to clobber someone over the head, you can walk more quietly if you choose and if you know what a pocket is and have a hand you can pickpocket, though chances are, you will get caught fairly early in your career. Armour is the same, anyone can put it on. Considering how alchemy works, all you need to have done is eaten stuff to get started in that career, I'd say you're covered from a RP perspective.

Smithing is a close call, but at least smelting isn't counted there, it is garbage that you could make alloys from ore without any training. Could anyone make a dagger from an ingot of iron? Well you've got a hammer, an anvil and a grindstone, guess it would take a lot of practive to make a decent dagger or a better weapon, so you can't make much useful gear, but if you practice it's possible and there's almost always a blacksmith nearby for guidance. In my roleplayers mind they're hoping for a new apprentice or at least some cheap labour and they're not going to let you wreck their tools, so they help you out. In my distant past I've had apprentices borrow tools from me and you better believe they got a lecture first and then I kept my eyes wide open while they used them; no tradesman just lends out tools or equipment to a near stranger without making sure they use them responsibly, especially in a dangerous environment like a smithies.

Which leaves magic and having starting spells. It's clear magic is common, the guards are always asking me to conjure up a warm bed or a mug of beer for them, so having folks joke about magic means it is normal for commoners to witness. I don't think you need a special background to have what little magic you start with, but it's clearly not completely normal, I think if you must have a background for your character you need to include that little bit of magic training you have. It's not too much of a stretch to have a kindly uncle or to have spent time as a child pestering the village mage to teach you some magic tricks before you realised it was too hard work or not as much as fun as throwing rocks at ducks or whatever other mischief you got up to!

TLDR? -> Really I see the starting skill numbers as just the minimum competency that an intelligent and fit advlt would have if he tried something for the first time that he'd seen others do before.


Oh, and I don't miss classes, not one bit

I agree with this entirely. This game doesn't punish you enough for low level skills like Morrowind did. I actually liked it that you could not even kill a mudcrab if your sword skill was at 5 points, and yet once you reach 100, all enemies can be overcome.

I find it very annoying that my character starts off with a fire spell than can incinerate two Imperial soldiers within seconds. If I could do that, then why the hell didn't I just burn off the bindings on my character and make a break for it. (From a realism standpoint.)

Entirely off-topic, but I love your avatar. Lol.

If for nothing else, classes are handy for helping keep track of what you are supposed to be. An interface change might work just as well, though. I imagine it's a pain to go scrolling and clicking through those awkward constellation trees when you need a reminder of what your strengths and weaknesses are.

That's exactly the point, though. It forces you into playing a character who just popped up on the border of Skyrim one day without any previous experience in any of the game's skills (aside from those afforded by racial bonuses). You can't really, for example, pretend you're an Imperial agent sent to investigate Skyrim, or a Breton scholar coming to look into Nordic ruins, or a Redguard mercenary escaping from a bad run in with the law. I do that sort of thing all the time with Morrowind or Oblivion, coming up with some reason why my skills landed me in prison (or, more commonly, using an alternate beginning mod, but I suppose that's a little unfair).

Anyway, I'm not out to make a mountain out of a molehill. Skyrim's still great fun. I just felt as though this change was the one major one to have hampered the gameplay experience for me (well, aside from the missing skills, and the bizarre disappearance of spellmaking, but those were to be expected)

Yes and no. I'm not going into detail about why. I just wish they'd put in the option to create a class. But y'know.. it's Bethesda. :/

Nah. Levelling up by pickpocketing on my heavy armour character and by selling dungeon loot is sweet