Thanks to the "ridiculous" Legion, i noticed a new rank, the Frumentarii

Guys, this faction was one of the various factions in Van Buren, and this the Fallout Universe, it doesnt need to be 100% accurate

World history in the Fallout world was exactly the same as in reality up to the end of World War II, which is where it started gradually diverging from real history.

Caesar is the one who's wrong about Rome, Roman history wasn't different in the Fallout world.

I like the Legion as in enemy in Fallout. Some crazed low tech tribals that swarms everyone else. Imagine some tribal reading a book about the conquests of Rome and decides to call himself Caesar. Of course he is not interested in the buildings or culture of Rome. Just the conquest and power. It would not be the first time that has happened(even in real life).

I think Caesars Legion are a good faction for the game.

And yes he is bending everything to suit his own purposes. He tells everyone he is the son of Mars, so they worship himas a god adn he does the same thing to Lanius.

but caesar is not a crazed tribal, he is an intelligent well educated ex follower of the apocalypse. I wouldn't be surprised if Caesar didn't actually care about the Legion at all and he was just conducting a social experiment for himself. He is far more interesting than any individuals in the NCR, too bad his whole legion has less personality than mr. House's securitrons.

@Twigg - He may be well educated in the Fallout universe, but I can not imagine anyone in a post nuclear wasteland being what I would consider well educated.

WHAT?? You mean ancient Rome didn't hold a lottery to determine how to punish or release people?? They didn't use guns??? They didn't speak in a broken Latin/English hybrid????

:woot: :shocking: :dead:

He's well educated for someone in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. But regardless of education, he's ultimately no different than any other wasteland warlord aside from the fact that he's successful and others aren't.

Also the real tragedy is that Joshua Graham isn't a companion like he was in Van Buren. It would have been nice if the Daughters of Hecate had also been there to balance out Caesar's Legion's misogyny, too.

remember: you aren't seeing the whole empire. These are the front lines, he brought only the most loyal and fanatic followers he could with him; the greatest fights and smartest leaders. The ones you see are the ones Caesar trusts his life to, of course they're fanatics. Not every viking would go berserk, nor does every Muslim want to go and blow themselves up for their war.

Fanatics are easy to "create." As for Caesar's motivation, I am not sure what it exactly is. Probably a mix of wanting to unite the wasteland and gain more power at the same time. But, I am sure he realizes that the Legion is doomed to fail without him. Doesn't mean you should just give up now though.

The NCR could barely match up against the Brotherhood. They only managed to make progress because of their own superior numbers, despite them being outgunned and outclassed in every way.



So Fallout 1 and 2 were about a vault inhabitant that is trying to find his dad and purify the water in the Capital Wasteland?

Fallout 3 = Find a daddy that runs away (This one bit, 1% is original from the main plot.) FIND A GECK, AND STOP SUPER MUTANTS BY DESTROYING THEIR VATS!(FO & FO2) USE GECK TO PURIFY WATER (FO) OH THE NOEZ. STOP ENCLAVE FROM TAKING OVER AMERICA! (FO2)

It was loosely ripped off.
Fallout 1, find a water chip to save people, face tons of super mutants while doing it.
Fallout 3, restore project purity so it cleans the water and saves tons of people and face tons of super mutants while doing it.
Fallout 2, face Enclave as final enemy and get the option to destroy the world with the FEV virus.
Fallout 3, face Enclave as final enemy and get the option to destroy the world with the FEV virus.
Fallout 2, find geck in order to save village.
Fallout 3, find geck in order to restore project purity and save people.

You're mostly right....that's why such Empires (except the French) rewarded a lack of devotion by a subject trooper with a agonizing and undignified death...in some cases thier fate was shared by thier family as well. But then, with the Romans, Mongols, or Zulus....playing along was a path to regaining thier freedom and a place amongst thier conquerors that would ensure a future for thier children. In Rome Auxiliaries were usually rewarded with Citizenship if they survived thier career and it wasn't unheard of for the grandchildren of conquered people to become members of the Civil Administration or even Senators. Except for the Aztecs....they waged war mainly to take prisoners that were destined to be sacrificed to their Gods then eaten.



.....and the many thousands of native allies from tribes who were fed up with having thier fellow tribesmen dragged away and sacrified to the Aztec gods. It also helped Cortez that he fit into the Aztec's "End Times" myths....a happy coincidence that he ruthlessly exploited.




They don't touch much on it in the game, but no doubt the CL has a program for brainwashing recruits into fanatical loyalty. Caesar also kept an eye out for promising individuals amongst his enemies, captives, or pressed men...such as Inculta, Lanius, and the Courier....who got individual attention designed to secure their personal loyalty, even if they thought the neo-Rome motif was nonsense. And if all else fails...if you were some recruit and your choice was to charge that squad of Brothers, in which case you will probably die (but maybe not), or to refuse, and definitely die when you were crucified or worse for insubordination.....what would you do?



I suspect that was why he picked Lanius. Lanius was personally loyal to Caesar to the point of fanaticism....and importantly, all his other lieutenants feared and respected him....Caesar knew Lanius would maintain the CL meme, if only because he knew it was what Caesar wanted of him. Most likely Caesar calculates that if the template he has created for his Empire can be maintained for a couple generations then it will stick on it's own accord. Lanius should be good for at least one.....assuming Lanius managed his own succession successfully, the project would take on a life of it's own as eventually it would be the only way the inhabitants of the CL knew as thier own tribal identities were obliterated.

Today's popular culture encourages people to consider anything that is old to be useless and of no value.....when it comes to guns that's a big mistake. A 1891 Moisin-Nagant may be obsolete when it comes to modern military tactics but rifles of that exact design have filled a lot of graveyards. It's not obsolete because AKMs or M-16s are more powerful ( the Moisin's powerful 7.62x54R round is overkill at the ranges AKs and M16's were designed to be used at)....it's obsolete because it requires more training to master and doesn't spit bullets fast enough.

"Conformist tool"
~ Jerry the Punk

what part of "legion" dont YOU seem to get?

legion is a military term for number of soldiers.....they had legionares during the republic as well. Rome had its biggest expansions were in fact under the republic and not the caezars who added smaller territories and then ended up in a rope-a-dope with the surrounding powers. the roman empire wasnt nearly as successful as the roman republic which was its best mode. emperors spread the army to thin, wasted resources in personal projects etc. very few of the emperors were actually beneficial to Rome. the rest were either downright destructive or at best didnt effect anything much.

The pros and cons of the realism of the Legion can be debated back and forth all day. What I consider to be appallingly absent is that NOBODY surrenders, ever (except Pilus). There's no arguing that the core groups may be "fight to the last man" fanatical: Mongols Golden Horde, Persian Immortals, Roman Praetorians, French Old Guard, etc. Those are elite troops, chosen and trained for just that kind of dedication. However, _elite_ troops generally accounted for less than 10% of the large numbers of troops that an army will field. Of the remaining 90%, sure, many might be intimidated by the consequences of a _failed_ surrender attempt. That is, "What happens if our guys _actually_ win?" Or failing to be "aggressive enough", at which point the Soviet NKVD troops WILL machinegun any soldiers that try to retreat, or Prussian sergeants stick a pike in anyone that falters.

When all is said and done though, MOST people actually want to live. If the ONLY tactic an army employs is "Banzai!", the grunts will start to realize that "Following orders WILL get me killed, sooner or later." As a result, throughout history, EVERY army has been plagued with desertion and had many soldiers surrender rather than die fighting. Even Imperial Japanese and SS troopers have been known to surrender. So suggesting that out of the entire Legion army, spread out all along the Colorado River and committed in 2- to 4-man units, a significant number WOULD take the opportunity to surrender rather than continue fighting a losing engagement. And all the NCR would have to do to ensure that the Legion failed would be to plaster the front lines with leaflets that read, "Surrender now and start a new life in the NCR!" Between desertions and plummeting morale as the Legion clamps down on Security HARD (decimation, etc.), the NCR would be hard pressed processing the flood of surrendering POWs.

Oh I "get" the Legion that is modeled after the Roman Legion.



Legion from Latin legio "military levy, conscription," from legere "to choose".

The use of the term legion did not ended with Roman Empire but its pretty clear the purpose of its later use (like the French Foreign Legion that is certainly NOT a term for a number of soldiers).



I never claimed such, Julius Caesar was never Emperor even if he was named Dictator Perpetuo.



I also did not claimed as such, even if I would point out the Republic had a lot of problems and such problems lead to the Empire that was more effective as even if they still had bickering Senators and Consuls at least someone was holding their leash.



So most of the conquests were done during the Republic and yet the Emperors "spread the Army too thin"?
And here is were I say "no", the Roman Empire borders eventually became stable and Pax Romana took hold, without enemies you dont need a army so they started to cut expenses on it.



I am having a hard time to think what was a "personal project" as I really have no idea, I know Nero did rebuild Rome but its not as if the place did not burn to the ground.



This is were you are going well off, nobody is claiming that the Roman Emperors single handed handled the Empire.

Following up to Augustus was a tough act, also "the rest"? the Nerva–Antonine dynasty were the term "Five Good Emperors" comes from (there were 7, one died with the Plague that leaves 6 and since Commodus was the last ...)? Sure a LOT were assassinated or killed (by the Praetorian Guard or the Legion) but still MANY died of natural causes.

Going back you still have to understand Caesar's Legion is based on the Roman Legion of Julius Caesar time, a anology would be trying to create a society based on George S. Patton Biography ... you would get something that would be similar to the US Army during World War II but not the United States of America of that period.

Ughh. Not this again! You have a Dad, I have a Dad, if we grew up in a vault YOU'D CARE ABOUT HIM. He wouldn't be 'Daddy' he'd be "only person in the entire damn world that's sane and gives a crap about you". It was a hell of a lot better story than "ogosh im a prisoner ono bad guyz killed the emperor ooh look trees". <- hope you get the reference. Or dare I say it OW I GOT SHOT IN THE HEAD BUT LIVED, O NO SOME DOCTOR WITH NO MEDICAL TOOLS SALVAGED MY BRAIN O LOOK ITS VEGAS OH NO WAIT ITS INVISIBLE WALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLS.

There wasn't a GECK in FO1. Water wasn't purified either. You needed a water purifying CHIP, completely two different things. Also, there isn't a super mutant VAT in FO3. Furthermore *rolls eyes* it's really not that far-fetched that an AMERICAN army would be involved in a retro-AMERICAN POST APOCALYPTIC SEQUEL IN WHICH THE PREVIOUS GAME HAD THEM.

It's like you had crazy for breakfast with a dash of ignorant bliss.

If you're so smart, think up a better game for me right now. =P

I enjoyed both games. Sorry for the off-topic, I'm just tired of the ignorant FO3 hate because it wasn't made by the original 'doodz'.

Vaut 87 has Vats in it, The ending of FO1 had you purify water with the new chip, The Enclave is not the AMERICAN army, They are a shadow group, Oh, And Fallout.

I just thought of one.

You're right. Fallout 3 should have been about flying pigs and giant squirrels, continuity be damned, we wanted a Fallout 3 with nothing resembling the previous games! Then we'd have basked in the glory that felt nothing at all even slightly like a fallout game!

The enclave likes to think of itself as being the last remaining american government. Fallout 3 would have felt odd with some sort of other bad guy (see above ). It had been like 10+ years since the last fallout game.

legio, legionis actually means "legion"

legere, lego, legi means "read" would you also like me to go over all the declensions? :happy:

No, Fallout 3 could have just been with Caesars Legion Anyways, It did'nt need The Enclave.
Oh, Just like how New Vegas felt nothing like Fallout without the Enclave as the main enemy right, Oh yeah sure.

As far as we know, we've basically destroyed The Enclave's entire command structure. Twice....

Would Fans really have meshed with New Vegas if it had come first? I don't think so. I think the people that were fans of 1 and 2 wanted to visit the same content again to get back into the story. It would be WAY weird to all the sudden play a sequel 10+ years later and try to piece together the story of the old games. FO3 worked really well to get people interested in the Fallout universe again.

You need to put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute!

You're a company and you're all also a big fan of the Fallout series, which is dead.

You decide to try to buy the license to it and succeed.

You, as a fan see: (not the creator or in any way related to the original creators of the original games) have to now do your best to work with someone elses storyline.

Ripping off would have been if they tried to do Van Buren. They (thankfully) left that untouched and the original creators got to re-create it into New Vegas.

You should be thankful to Bethesda for bringing new life to the Fallout games, otherwise you'd still be playing the demo of VB and wishing upon a star that'd never fall. Furthermore, without Fallout 3's engine, New Vegas could be radically different.

I say both games are fun and leave it at that. I'd also like to point out that J.E. SAWYER wasn't involved in Fallout 1 and 2 and was barely involved with VB, btw so New Vegas isn't -exactly- by the original creators entirely. *wink*