There are several obvious examples in History upon which Caesar's Legion is based, the Roman Empire being the obvious one. There are also the Aztecs, The Persians, the Mongols, the Zulus, the Napoleonic French Empire, etc. All of them were militarily aggressive empires that would conquer neighbors, and then draft the conquered nation's military forces into its own army. However, in FNV all legionaries are shown to be suicidally committed to the Legion. This is contrary to actual History, where it has been demonstrated time and time again that draftees for the most part do NOT willingly throw their lives away just because their new masters command it. Most conscripted nations usually just "go through the motions" and when confronted by pointedly capable opponents, surrender at that first opportunity.

Soldiers of the core nationality -- Romans, Mongols, Persians, etc. -- often fought as fanatics, to the death. Not so the draftees from conquered nations/empires/tribes.

Additionally, the Legion is portrayed as VERY hostile towards the use of higher tech weapons (which makes them futuristic Luddites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite). In terms of domestic production, that might be acceptable, but certainly NOT when facing opponents armed with Space Age weapons. The Aztecs disintegrated when facing off with the Spaniards armed with a few score matchlocks, a couple cannon, and a handful of horses. Legionaries armed with machetes, some slug-throwers, and a few laser rifles would literally melt under the attention of a squad of Brothers armed with Gatling lasers. Furthermore, the Legion soldiers would KNOW that outcome was inevitable. There's nothing soldiers hate more than the thought that their lives are being literally thrown away with no hope of success. The leaders' staunch refusal to use readily available superior weapons would definitely de-motivate the rank-and-file Legion grunts.

Lastly, Caesar MUST realize that his mighty empire is doomed to disintegrate as soon as he dies. He's obviously enough of a historian to recognize the similarity to the Macedonian Empire, and what became of it when Alexander died. Knowing that without him, there is NO unifying force to hold all those defeated tribes together, one wonders what made him think that the cost of all that death and destruction was a worthwhile investment. If he did believe it to be so, just _what_ was it that made it worthwhile?

Lanius.

If you leave the legion, Lanius will eat your soul.

Because he's like the batman or something.

Hitler youth, Imperial Japanese soilders Kamikazes, modern Day suicide bombers to anchent Viking berserkers fanatics all. All it takes is for some people to be that fanatic and willing to kill their own to get a job done to inspire fear in those drafted. During another topic others pointed out that the Legion may only take teens and children as new soldiers. Older men would just be for cannon fodder.

As for knowing his Empire would fall after he dies its possible he just has alot of faith it will not. "Your Majesty, who shall receive the kingdom?" "To the strongest." Those were Alexander's last words.

I thought he was Fallout's "The Mask".

He sounds more like batman, If he was hyper and had a guy named Tim Jerry as his bodyguard however..

The Legion's soldiers are indoctrinated at a young age. Tribes were absorbed, but that doesn't mean it happened so recently that only the advlts were added to the current military. Likely the ones who don't fanatically follow orders become slave laborers or first wave fodder (and watched by the fanatics who will kill them anyway if they run).

It was a joke.
A bad one at that... :[

Hmm Freddy Krueger?

Eh, this is Fallout. Sometimes the bad guys are just crazy. You shouldn't always put too much thought into how or why things work. Just that they do.

Besides, Caesar gets results, and in a desolate wasteland world, order and unity would be attractive to those who live in fear.

I do think it was mentioned that all advlt males from conquered tribes are killed, while the kids are drafted. Would help to destroy tribal identites quickly by instilling fanaticism from youth.

Also you are right about the Legion being trashed by technologiacally superior forces and better tactics. The NCR's victory at the First Battle of Hoover Dam was all about exploiting the Legion's lack of range and fanaticism. Also

Only if its related to chuck norris.

(This is a joke too, A very very bad one at that.. )

Caesar's legion to me seems like a bit of a gimmick or something, just to add a bit of flavour to the game. If you ask me Romanesque legionnaires do not fit in with a post-apocalyptic-nuclear-strangely-bulky-yet-advanced-technology-and-glamorous-housewives. So yes, I think the legion is ridiculous but for different reasons. However, Obsidian have sort of made it work, at least to the point where I'm not sitting there thinking "These guys DO NOT BELONG HERE!" every time I see one of them.
I don't find the fact that they're pretty much suicidal fanatics that unbelievable. Look at a lot of religions and beliefs, if people are indoctrinated from a young enough age (I hope I used that in the right context), they will eventually come to believe that dying for the legion is honorable and something to strive for.

Caesar's probably just thinking "It was fun while it lasted." He strikes me as the sort of person who doesn't really care what happens if he's not around to see it.

Overall, I think Caesar's Legion is a weird faction in this game, but I don't exactly have any ideas as to what they should have been replaced with so I'm not complaining.

There is also the example of child soldiers in our modern world.

They are kids who are kidnapped from their homes, possibly orphaned in the process, but end up becoming devoted, crazy soldiers. Have you seen Blood Diamond?

And Caesar did realize it was not going to last. If you talk to him, he explains that his ultimate goal is for the Legion and NCR to both collapse due to their flaws, and in the process something devoid of both of their flaws but containing their good aspects will arise.

First of all, Fallout is famous for allowing people with relatively "inferior" weapons slay people with superior ones. For instance, when I had Arcade as my companion, one of his main weapons was... a fire ax. And despite being surrounded by lasers, assault weapons, et al, I made heavy use of the 1860's vintage lever action cowboy rifle. Truth be told, weapons haven't changed all that much. The AK-47, considered by many to be the best assault rifle available, is 63 years old, and the M-16 that our troops use isn't much younger. And a lot of our Marines still insist on using the 100-year-old M1911 pistol. And many people rely on breech-loading shotguns, lever-action rifles, and single action revolvers for self-defense, all guns that are 150 years old. And of course, axes and hammers and knives date back to prehistory.

The only thing I thought questionable about the Legion was that they still wore the impractical Roman-style costumes. It would be very feasible for a post-apocalyptic society to base itself on Roman Emire precepts (slavery, brutal punishment, and violent entertainment; but a very high level of civilization). Rome, after all, was an extremely successful society, lasting hundreds of years and achieving a level of civilization that we did not reach again until over a millenium later. However, I think that their everyday clothing would be more practical in nature. If they wore Roman-style clothes at all, they would be for ceremonial purposes.

A big part of the trouble with the Legion is it's so damn superficial. They absorbed aspects of ancient Rome like Latin and military organization without grasping the aspects that actually made the Roman Empire great. Roman soldiers didn't march into a territory and demand everyone learn Latin or get crucified. A faction actually modeled on ancient Rome might well be worthy of support. As it stands the Legion are just cartoonishly evil villains with a goofy sense of style and really weak justifications.

http://images2.makefive.com/images/entertainment/gaming/top-five-rpgs-of-all-time/fallout-12-7.jpg http://www.duckandcover.cx/official/fallout2/files_files/f2box300.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/de/Fallout_Tactics_Box.jpg/256px-Fallout_Tactics_Box.jpg

I dislike the Legion too. They are probably the most absurd fractions in the Fallout universe IMO and what's worst is they are the MAIN enemy fraction in NV. They are just a bunch of guys with guns and knieves, who wear skirts. I wish the enemy fraction was a stronger opponent and use higher tech weapons. Maybe an evil cult (of cannibals or slavers) with secret and powerful alien technology (ala Heaven's Gate) would be a much nicer idea.

What this i dont even

Identity.

Also they are not costumes, they are modified football uniforms.
So what is questionable when raiders that were their main opponents wear even more impractical clothing? at least basic Legion Armor is on pair with Leather Armor as the NCR basic armor is a briastplate.



What part of "Legion" you dont seem to get?

Caesar’s Legion is based on the Roman Legion, NOT on the Roman Republic (since Caesar served the Republic and only became a Empire after his death) as the Legion seems completely lacking anything we can trace to the Roman Republic, after all you know modern law and rights are based on Roman laws ... the Roman Empire was one of THE most successful empires in History NOT just because of their military prowess (its territorial expansion reached its zenith in 117, the split was in 390) but because of its society, look at how long did the Mongol Empire lasted in comparison.

What the Legion is in the end its a Slaver's Army, maybe with competent leadership and numbers but still without much outside of the military that in end its going to implode one way or another.

I think this is done for the psychological impact. The Legion has a reputation for being terrifying that they put a lot of effort into building (IE Nelson). Their uniforms are very unique and standout intentionally to remind people of that terror. The lack of protection also fits their strategy of overwhelming the enemy with numbers. It would be too expensive to give everyone actual body armor.



From a literary perspective I think it provides a nice contrast to their black-ops which are much more subtle, and to Mr. House's mastermind flavor of villainy. In order for shades of grey to be noticed, some things have to be black and white. Otherwise it all washes out.

The fact that Caesar drafts tribals who worship the guy as a god probably helps too.

0.o

Child soldiers in our modern world?
Pardon me, but ... what?

"Children" have fought and died ... been make Kings and Queens ... since history began.
It's not a "modern" phenomena, nor it is "kidnapping" or "brainwashing" that accounts for the historical example of "children" fighting in any given war. It has been a historical fact for ages.
I know for a fact that my Grandfather was taken in to the U.S. Army at 16 years old and served in Vietnam until 1973.

It's a "modern" phenomena to look at "children" as if they are mindless creatures to be "protected" from the world we live in. We've somehow gone on to see "children" as semi-stupid.
Why? I suppose it is so that the "advlts" can feel better about themselves.
The fact remains that kids are today exactly the same as they were in the dark ages ... smarter than the rest of us, willing and able to kick ass in the name of a cause and the only future any of us has left.

The ONE thing that I find Caesar doing correctly is empowering the next generation as capable warriors.
I think Ky-Zar is stupid, though, in that he misses out on the female potential for warriors. If "modern" history has proven anything, it's that chicks can kick even more ass than guys.

I'll defer to 10 of Spades, however, in the area of "kicking ass".

The Legion is based on those different cultures in many ways but not all and not all people whom are conquered join the legions army but of course if they dont they become slaves. This would be one of the main reasons a drafted soldier may become blindly loyal and risk their lives. Fear of a life of slavery OR a fear of crucifixion.

The Legion are absolutely ridiculous.

Wish they'd just had some originality instead of basing them so heavily on the whole Roman empire thing they got going.

Caesar's Legion is ludicrously inaccurate. This is either because Caesar's historical materials were extremely limited or because he's deliberately misinforming the people he rules. I figure he's not a stupid guy so it's probably the latter.

Anyone who thinks Caesar is making an accurate portrayal of ancient Rome should read history books on said subject or firsthand primary sources by ancient Romans which are freely available online. Caesar is clearly making an effort to make Nero and Caligula look like pretty cool guys.

You mean like how Failout 3 ripped off its story completely from FO1 and 2?

And how Caesars Legion was planned for the REAL Fallout 3, Titled Van Buren? Which Black Isle/Obsidian was going to make?
Psh, Yeah.