Upgrade your talent tree each level
Choose Birthsigns as you go
Over 20 Dragon Shouts and upgrade them three levels
You rank up faster!
Over 85 spells



Ok some of these have cooldowns. But the vast amount of options and powers that are available to you makes me think as soon as I hit level 15 I will be strong enough to take on everything. Yeah I love variety I dont want to sound like im complaining about it. Its just seems that already my character will be so overpowered at higher levels. Yes im Dragonborn but im not a God!

I thought New Vegas was on the right track by restricting your character to some degree and allowed for careful management as you cant max out everything like FO3. But it seems Bethesda hasnt learnt from FO3 mistake. I know the perks arnt the same (shield bash, charge ect) but an upgrade each level and faster level progression already seems to me like you will get really good really fast.

I honestly don't know.

The balance in Oblivion was pretty much non-existant, at high levels you had to put it on a lower difficulty otherwise it's just tedious and boring.

In Fallout 3, I was actually stuck for ammo, caps and stims from time to time, this made it all the more rewarding when I found some lying around. I'd say that Fallout 3 was more balanced than Oblivion, this is a good sign from Skyrim but as I said, I really don't know how well it will work.

No, because Oblivion had so many god-mode things that it was ridiculous.

Lol
It's a rp game it's as hard or easy as u make it.

Can't get every perk for every skill, there were 84 mastery perks in Oblivion. Can't cast spells while using weapon and shield. In OB, you got a birthsign, a star sign from the stones, and all the fame dependent doomstone powers. Shield blocks now have to be timed right.

Players don't want to feel restricted. I hated New vegas' perk system. There was no fun in leveling up and NOT getting a perk.

and PLEASE don't act like oblivion was challenging.

Believe me Bethesda knows how to make an rpg. They will make it fine and make it so enemies are at least a challenge. And for enemies that aren't challending they will simply throw more at you. Also on the note of 'by level 15 you can take on anything' I could honestly take on anything at level 7 in both fallouts. By that time my weapon skill was maxed out and enemies simply just died. But as I leveled so did the enemies, until they actualyl became somewhat of a nuisance again around level 10. And Please dont forget not all enemies are the same, just like supermutants in fallout were a more of a threat then your run of the mill ghoul no doubt there wil be enemies who are much stronger than the average cannon fodder. And as demonstrated in the demo byu the 'drougr deathlord' or whatever it was called (its freaking 6:50 AM I am not looking it up) enemies will have various elite versions that can be counted as minibosses to add flavor to the combat.

No. I don't think it will be too easy! Some parts of the game will be easier than others.

I think the level scale is different, perks may not be as strong as you think, quantity of spells didn't make you necesarilly more powerful.

We didn't know the real impact of the birthsing choosing or even if we can use that feature more than once.

Dragon shouts could be overpowered as any other feature, depending how the do it.

The game could be very easy or hard should they have two teams, one making the world and the other your character and both teams didn't have any feedback between them, but I can't think this being the case.

I doubt the challenge will disapear that soon. More like that's when it will show itself for the first time .
And god-mode characters are a given in TES, and generally tolerable as long as it takes time and effort to reach that status. And dragon shouts will require THE most effort to acquire!

Umm.... Oblivion is soooo easy for me... seriously... If you have any idea of what your doing you can EASILY get 100 % chameleon (= god mode) or 100 % reflect damage and spell (= god mode). I have just killed everyone in the Imperial City without taking ANY damage. I was just standing still and they just died by hitting me... BOOORRIINGGG...

I usually run around 50 % chameleon and 50 % reflect damage just to have SOME kind of challange (even then Azura's Star makes my weapons constantly have charges so again... too easy).

My suggestion for Skrim; If you wear 2 rings of reflect damage, where one is 30 % and the other is 20 %, make it so that you only gain 30 % reflect damage. Like that it takes the highest one. This would've seriously made Oblivion harder and more enjoyable.

Levelling is faster overall but only truely fast in the beginning because as you go up your lower ranked skills give less towards your next level and your higher skills level slower for being higher, but give a bigger bonus. Dragonshouts will have cooldowns depending on their strength (guessing that the much more powerful ones will be equivalent to daily powers from oblivion, not to mention we have to find the dragon walls AND kill dragons before we can use them, so it's like power you earn).

This is the first elder scrolls (well as far as I'm aware, Iv'e only played since Morrowind) that you cannot master every skill. Sure you can train a skill to 100 in say blade but you'll never be as good as someone who has trained to 100 and put in perks.

Well considering I'll use invisibility all the time yeah I'd say it will be easy, but so was all other TES games if you played an illusionist.

Well thanks for that, it adds nothing to the discussion what so ever. I play on the hardest difficulty usually unless its a tedious chore. But as I pointed out you upgrade fast and get a perk each level. Thats not something you can control.


Actually I agree with the first two replies. Oblivion was crazy for balance. Especially when you acquire the reflect damage spells and the likes. So yes maybe the title is a bit of a hyperbole. However I am concerned that the game will just become too simple. As you pointed out FO3 early on was great because of rarity of caps and stims. However with spells at your disposal and the likes it completely different for ES games

The days of wonderful games like Daggerfall are gone, alas.
In games these days there is no more learning curve, no more puzzles that require thought, no more failing.
Its just the way it is at this time.

The backlash will surely come and people will clamour for games with depth, breadth and challenge again.
We just have to ride the current trend of numbskullery out.
Maybe in a decade or so games will become less hello kitty and more kings quest or Daggerfall.
We can but hope.

Im not seeing where people are reading that I thought Oblivion was challenging? I dont even mention it the game in the OP.


With NV you got a perk once every two levels. But you still gained talent points to upgrade with so you were still stronger with each level up. The NV was brilliant in my opinion. However I guess this is where you never reach a firm conclusion because its a difference of opinion. I guess as long as the perks start off weak and become more powerfull iti will work. Sounds like this is the approach

Maxed out weapons skill at level 7 hhmmm kill a group of cazadors can you sounds unlikely... If still painstakingly doable. Instant chems or time release chems?

And yet another thread where hardcoe gamers and god-moders clash. All hell is about to break loose... :flame:

I have a feeling that this game is going to be much better than OB in all aspects. When I created a new character in OB I felt like I was playing with the same character all over again. The game got boring because of the lack of variety in weapons and magic, and it felt stupid when I shot someone with 50 arrows and he was still running and swinging his gigantic warhammer. The purpose of all these perks and dragon shouts is to make the game much more fun and interactive, even after you finish it five times, you will be able to do something new with the perks. I think that the leveling system is built properly this time. The stronger you get, the stronger your enemies get. Don't forget, we're supposed to fight dragons.

The issue for me is im a console gamer. I cant mod so these things need to be right from the offset. I don't want to turn this discussion into an argument, or a futile debate on consoles/mods ect. However im sure everyone can appreciate that for a gamer on a console, we don't have access to mods so the game balance and feel needs to be right from the start. This is why im voicing a concern. I want the game to be fun, of course there are different levels of gamers so I dont want to damage their experience. I just get the feeling that from the information we have got already is that like an above poster said at lvl 7 even (on FO3) you can do most things regardless of difficulty

Do you think kid shows are dumb? Teletubbies? Dora the Explorer? They are real simple, yep. Well, then what's different about TES? Earlier games in the series were easy for me. STEAMLINING new ones even more than that is dumbing down for me.

For.

Me.

Subjective opinion. At the same time, you say they are pretty smart and hard still. It's okay you have your own opinion, but that opinion, well... That leads to pretty unpleasant news for you, don't you think?

Where did I say that? Did you read the OP?

I made no mention of other Elder scrolls Games in there. I pointed out the new aspects of Skyrim and made comparisons to the latest sandbox games by Bethesda. Fallout. I made comparisons to that because thats what Todd said the ranking up system will resemble

From Software's Demon's Souls and subsequent Dark Souls games are bringing back that type of challenge again. I do not think that Skyrim will be to easy because you dont have to use a chameleon spell or invisibility. Turn up the difficulty and then beat the whole game with nothing but a torch see how easy that is....

Oo I must check those games out then, thanks for the tip
You know what I miss most about puzzles in games? You used to have to type in the answer, instead of choose from three options.
Three options isnt a puzzle, its a game of chance.
In Daggerfall I remember a door that only opened if you told it to 'shut up'. You literally had to type that in. Much more difficult and therefore rewarding than choosing from a few options.
I dont suppose Demon's souls does that?

I see. Well, we did not get to feel for ourselves yet just how level-scaling and other challenge-inducing factors actually affect things. So it's too early to draw conclusions. But the sheer fact that Beth has been paying attention to the level-scaling all the way from Oblivion is evidence that they are putting appropriate effort into the matter. So I doubt they'd oversimplify things that much.