I agree on this. I don't believe RAI was "too good" to be implemented, I think it was "too bad". Because, if you can pull off such a complex thing as having npc's act on a need>means to satisfy the need>action basis (I assume this was the real RAI that was supposedly "toned down"), I don't see how it would be rocket science to add some SCRIPTED components that would guarantee that the game CAN"T be broken by npcs.

Are you afraid the quest npc's will kill each other? Make them immortal to each other and mortal to player. How hard would that be in terms of programming?
Are you afraid that one npc will buy all the potions in town? Make the vendors stock refilling periodically (wait a min, that already was the case, so where's the problem if one day you enter a shop and need a healing potion and the seller doesn't have one, this is real life economy, you come back tomorrow or try some place else)
Are you afraid that some hungry and moneyless npc will start killing everyone in town for food? What are guards for then? Have him arrested! if you need him for a quest you ask people in town and they'll tell you he's in jail.

I find it Incredibly difficult to believe that anyone at Bethesda "lies" about game features. Hype? Sure. Do some things change during development that weren't anticipated? Sure. Were some folks slightly off on facts? Maybe. But _intentionally deceive_ the public? Not hardly.

Again, if you go into this with a glass half-full, you will walk away thirsty no matter what you hear before hand. And with as awesome as Oblivion was for $60, I fail to understand how Anyone could have been cheated.

There has never been an RPG since Oblivion that could compare to it in depth, richness and complexity. I know I'm going to Really enjoy Skyrim, Radiant AI or not. I hope you do to.

Miax

Or simply just add 'exceptions' such as, essential quest fella? just make there an exception that no-one attacks him, and if Radiant AI was so good, then hpw come they couldn't lso accomplish guards areesting people, ratjer than istantanly executing NPC's for anything

.

There were odd examples of the AI going off script in Oblivion. One example I came across was going to see a jouneyman trainer, only to be disappointed, finding guards sheathing their swords and a stolen lettuce on her body. As to whether Todd Howard lied outright or not, no-one outside of Beth knows, but too many examples like mine would have made the game worse one way or another.

Artificial intelligence makes me lol. It's all scripted. Of course, you can add so many branches in the script that people wil "feel" like it was real (thats what I expect in Skyrim, an improved npc's script database) but... it's all scripted!

That is because the programmers were too incompetent (yeah, that's right incompetent) to program the guards to 'arrest' not go psycho and execute everyone who steals a 0 value spoon

Making more NPCs essential would've just pisssed off people more (we already complain about the number of essential/unkillable NPCs Oblivion had). Vendors could restock if they were bought out of all items, but some items were unique, and they only restock occasionally (plus there's nothing stopping problematic NPCs from going to buy more).

As for guards instantly executing NPCs for petty crimes, that's likely one of the reasons they had to tone it down. There wasn't a system in place to handle NPC arrests via RAI. "Well, make one!" you say? Oblivion was already delayed, and doing that would've delayed it much longer. Developers can spend an eternity improving and polishing a game, but if you ever want people to buy/play it, you need to say "Okay, this isn't working. Cut it out, and just release what we have." They can then improve it a bit more for the next game.

Well, that was Oblivions downfall, setting a deadline based on sales, not based on workload, if you cut ANYTHING off to release the game quicker, it's gonna be substandard


Not essential, just not a target of other NPC's

I saw the fence in Bruma (don't remember his name) stealing in the inn. Everyone yelled "thief" but no guard came and nobody attacked him. He sat down and ate his dinner. Talking about double standard. I want all npc's, essential or not, to face the same consequences the character does, including jail time, paying fines (and the game will actually have the guard checking the npc's inventory for gold) and not killed on sight.

That would have worked had a system of arrest been in place rather than a system of [censored] you criminal scum, Im going to rip your throat out approach

Bethesda lies? http://byblos.2.forumer.com/a/bethesda39s-lies_post155.html

As I said, Oblivion was already delayed. They didn't "release the game quicker", they took more time than they projected to try and fix it.


So when they do end up doing something worthy of being attacked, everyone just stands around all "durrr.. :bonk: "? Don't forget, there is no real "good guys" and "bad guys" (at most, "lawful" and "unlawful"), so a person may be friends with another person (so shouldn't be attacked by them), and an enemy of another (so would be). The whole idea of Radiant AI was that this would all be done automatically.. if you add a ton of exceptions or scripts to keep things in check, it loses what it was meant to be.

How does this anything other than folks were mis-informed on features?

Yeah I stand by my statement, Bethesda never intentionally deceives the public about their games - that would be incredibly bad business.

I think folks are reading into those statements what they want to believe.

As I said before, hind-sight's a [NUMMIT]. A development company cannot work on a game forever (even Duke Nukem Forever is getting released! ). At some point, they'll run out of funding and they have to release to recoup cost. They worked out a development schedule in the beginning and went along with that. That's how these things work, so you'll know how much money you'll need and can get. The longer you overrun your release date, the more money problems you'll have, and the more continuing development will suffer (ultimately producing a worse product).


And have people scream bloody murder "You said it wasn't scripted!" Sure, they say that now, but with that they'd have proof.

Well I have higher confidence in this just because they've built an entirely new engine with this stuff in mind. Oblivion still used the same old engine morrowind did so it obviously had limitations. You know.. as long as I'm not just standing there trading hits with the enemy forever I'll be happy. I mean nothing is more stupid than just standing there shooting someone in the face with an arrow while they punch at you for five minutes.

LUL , Todd was mis-informed about the game he was developing?

There is a list about FO3 lies but it is in a site unsuitable for children so no link

Again, I don't think this is a game breaker.
The quest items can't be sold to npcs (a quest label on every quest item, checked everytime a npc wants to buy it, the seller says no).

I think the unique and rare and valuable non-quest related items sold by traders should be available for everyone, if they can afford it. It's one of the things that adds a lot more immersion and atmosphere to the game: you don't know where every rare item is. In one playthrough you find it in a chest in a dungeon. In other playthrough you buy it in a shop. In other play you steal it from a rich nps's house. In other play, the item is initially in a chest in a dungeon, but a treasure hunter finds it (and you don't know that), then he fights a mage and the mage loots it off him (and you don't know that), then the mage sells it to the trader (and you don't know that) then a thief steals it from the trader (and you don't know that) then the thief travels to another town and it happens you kill him on the road and loot the rare item off him. Now that's what i call radiant ai. You don't *have to* know where all the items are, but you do know they are all somewhere in the game, as they can't be destroyed.


Why not? They are limited by their gold, by their inventory, by the shop's open time and by their "radiant ai" daily schedule which tells them to do many other things than buying in the shop. They can't buy everything all day long, they must go somewhere and empty their bags.

Yeah you would need to prove that to me, as I still think folks are reading into Bethesda statements what they want to believe and going from there.

You nor I nor anyone else knows exactly where in development Oblivion was at, what changes transpired during that process and/or why Todd said what he did. Your "assuming" they are lies, and giving Bethesda 0% benefit of the doubt.

Fortunately, Bethesda developers will very likely read this thread, chuckle at all the accusations, and continue making an awesome game for the millions of us who Will enjoy it for what it is.

I am thankful that accusations such as these will largely fall on deaf ears - as they are indeed ridiculous accusations, especially over a $60 game!

http://www.games.net/article/feature/101408/living-in-oblivion/ Todd's interview , read the ". A simple "get the diamond from that guy... quest can be done in hundreds of ways now" part .
What benefit of doubt? this is a blatant lie

This isn't the first time that this list appears in here , so far what the devs are doing is deleting posts , locking threads and banning users.

kthnxbye

I am so sick of false avertising.

I watched all the previews for Test Drive Unlimited 2 and Dev Diaries n read the preview info, then I go to the official forums to find out that half the stuff they advertised either isnt in the game or the details were greatly miscommunicated.

From what I have read here, they have changed alot of the game paly in skyrim and remvoed many features which made TES fun.

They thought what they gave themselves was plenty of time. You can't know all the trouble you'll run into during development, especially if the problems aren't caught until later.


Well, that pretty much goes back to what I said before. There's plenty of stuff they could've done to fix it, but it required more time, resulting in either more delays or less testing.