Anyone else think this "Radiant Story" feature is go

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:10 pm

It was never a lie, it indeed worked just like it was intended, but for a number a reasons it had to be toned down or we would eventually become frustrated at NPCs behaviour.

So it didn't work as intended. That, or Bethesda intended we be frustrated with NPC behavior.

I'm not worried, because these features aren't exciting me to play Skyrim. I won't miss them.
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Jani Eayon
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:19 pm

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:33 pm

I'm not worried at all. What most people forget or didn't know in the first place is that when Oblivion was developed, one of the major platforms, the XBOX 360, hadn't even hit the market yet. They acutally only had the finalized XBOX 360 technology for the last 6 months of development. Personally I think that is why alot of things were cut or scaled back...either in anticipation of the system not being able to handle it or they were cut once it was tested.
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Thema
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:36 am

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:34 pm

Well since Oblivion was rushed, and Skyrim seems to not be, I really can't say I fear much of anything of that nature.
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Neko Jenny
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:29 am

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:58 pm

In Bethesda's defense RAI was something really awesome and ground breaking. They set out to do some really complex stuff but in the end had to tone it down so they could get on other things. You only have so much time to make a game. :shrug: I think it's safe to say Skyrim will vastly improve upon this, just as Oblivion's A.I. was a huge improvement over Morrowind.

Will they fail to deliver on Radiant Story? I can't say. I don't work there. Will they make the best game they possibly can? Yes, they will. Will I spend thousands upon thousands of hours playing regardless? Absolutely.
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Sweet Blighty
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:39 am

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:09 pm

Not really, I am still worried. It might flop again (hopefully not). Let us not forget these posts:

Spoiler


[WARNING: Long post]

Some of them were true, most of the others were laughable.

Wow such along and disturbing post.

Hope it does not happen ever. <_<
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Mike Plumley
 
Posts: 3392
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:45 pm

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:58 pm

How is scripting a scene and passing it off as a radiant new AI system not lying?

Someone explain this to me.
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Britney Lopez
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:22 pm

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:58 am

Not really, I am still worried. It might flop again (hopefully not). Let us not forget these posts:

Spoiler
[Kathode] "All screenshots we've released are 100% in game showing stuff we've already got implemented. We haven't done any special poses or anything like that, with the exception of magazine covers."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I'm sorry, but what part of "without losing our hardcoe rpg fans" don't you understand?"

[Slateman] "Each of the faction lines in this game have plots and quests to much greater depth over MW. Quality, not quantity."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."

[Todd] "As you play, you start to figure out what you can do with these NPCs, and how you can influence their behavior, and when doing a quest, it really comes into play. A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."

[VSXX] "We have everything from mice to moles to crickets. The most fearsome you have ever seen even! You thought sleeping at night with a singing cricket outside your window was bad. You wait till you meet the one that plays a 14 piece drum set outside your window."

[Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcoe RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

If you think this is a simple, dumbed down hack & slash, you couldn't be more wrong."

[BlueDev] "For Oblivion, there's a very concious effort to avoid too much random information spewing by NPCs. Fear not--there's still the same amount of info to be found in the game. In fact, the NPCs probably have more than ever to say; it just makes more sense for them to say it."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is infinitely superior to Morrowind in every conceivable way."

[MattRyan] "So for all of you thinking that it would be neat to steal something, and then take off on your horse....guess what? An NPC can do the same dirty trick to you as well. "

[Todd] "The clothing you wear does affect certain NPC's, but not in a big way, ita€?s subtle."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Broken shields and weapons are automatically dropped and they clatter to the ground using Havok physics. Broken armor stays on, but is ineffective and you'll know if you're wearing broken armor or not."

[Slateman] "While I cannot go into detail, rest assured that even players who max out a bunch of skills will discover challenges in this game. We didn't leave you guys out "

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Just because you can attempt to bribe someone does not mean they'll automatically accept it."

[MattRyan] "We are gamers. We have given tons of time toward the balance of gameplay. Asside from the designers, artists, programmers, and producers.... our staff of QA testers are extremely good at exploiting our game systems and looking for loopholes in gameplay, or shortfalls in fun vs. realism.

In conclusion, to completely cut out any adjustment to difficulty in enemies would not be fun, just as making all creatures off-set to your level would not be fun."

[Slateman] "Yep. To second MSFD, we don't auto-level exactly to your level. We have all sorts of adjustments available. If we didn't the game would be boring "

[MattRyan] "If everything was leveled then you'd have no fear of anything in the game ('I can beat everything!') We plan on scaring the heck out of the player by higher level creatures."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You're walking through a seedy part of a town in Western Cyrodiil. People mill about, some engaged in conversation, others minding their own business, out on their own errands. Suddenly, an ugly man decides he doesn't like you. Maybe he's drunk, maybe he's just a bully, maybe he's just showing off in front of his friends -- but for whatever reason, he has taken your measure and decided he can best you.

He comes charging at you, with a nasty looking mace in his hand and a look of hatred on his face. Onlookers move back to make room for what should be an entertaining fight.

Quickly drawing your sword and shield, you wheel around to face him. He's upon you pretty quickly though, and you barely have time to raise your shield (hold right mouse button) before his first blow thunders down upon you.

But you block well, and as he recoils from the collision, you quickly perform left & right slashes with your sword (left click, pause, left click). The bully realizes this isn't going to be easy.

He backs off a bit, and starts dodging around you. First to the left, then to the right. You maneuver to keep him in view, looking for an opening. Suddenly he steps back, raises his mace in both hands, and steps forward, bringing the mace towards your head in a crushing blow!

But you're quick -- you step to the side as he attacks. As he passes by, you execute a spinning maneuver and slash him in the side (hold left mouse button and left maneuver key). The hit is solid, and your foe staggers from the blow.

But it's not over yet. The bully swings his mace wildly -- his first swing misses, but the next one connects for a blow that sends you staggering. Pressing his advantage, the bully bears down on you with a power attack of his own. OUCH. This isn't going well. You take a glance at your health meter, it's getting a bit low. You quickly back up out of the bully's reach and raise your shield (hold right mouse button).

He's hurting, too. You circle each other for a time, looking for an opening, trying to recover some fatigue. Finally the bully charges forward with a devastating overhead blow, perhaps hoping to break your shield. But the shield holds and the recoil send him staggering back. This is your chance! You perform a mighty forward power attack (hold the left mouse button, press forward) and connect solidly. The blow staggers your foe once again, and you perform 3 slashing attacks in rapid succession (left mouse button, pause, left mouse button, pause, left mouse button), and finally the bully collapses to the ground, defeated.

The crowd disperses, going back to their own business."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We happen to think that console gamers are smarter than that, and the success of Morrowind on Xbox proves that console gamers actually ARE interested in games with MORE depth and complexity than some people seem to think they are."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I absolutely guarantee that they'll be able to make mods that will completely blow away anything we saw for Morrowind, using the new Construction Set."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You can only use the map-based fast travel to go to places you've already been. So you'll HAVE to walk to each possible location AT LEAST once."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We could make traditional creatures that looked like every other depiction of those creatures you've seen in books, movies, or other games, but then where's the originality in that?"

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "NPCs would have to be told to go into your house via Radiant AI. And even if they WERE, you could always lock your door..."

[Slateman] "Trust me, you're going to get lost if you wander in these forests and don't use the compass or map."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "you can enter every interior."

[Pete] "There isn't a magazine on the planet that hasn't gotten information if they've asked for it."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Resurrected NPCs are not themselves. They're basically mindless automata who will follow you around and fight for you."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is an extremely rich, complex game with a tremendous amount of depth, compelling quest lines, interesting NPC characters, a huge variety of player character types and intricate character progression set in a huge, varied game world. Combat, magic, and AI have all been dramatically improved to enhance gameplay while still providing a balance between player skill and character skill, because after all, Oblivion is a role playing game. Yes, some things that were present in Morrowind are not in Oblivion -- but a lot more has been added than removed, and the goal has always been to make a game that is both more accessible to first-time RPG players, and is also challenging and rewarding for more experienced players."

[Pete] "We will continue to support the mod community as best we can and let them do the great things they do, just as we did with Morrowind."

[Sentinel] "The sad fact is that many development studios can't afford to bankroll their own game development. So they rely on publishers to give them the money to create these games. The problem with this is that the publisher then feels they should have input into the game since they are spending the money. Hence Atari and EA have such a big influence on a game they publish.

Just glad here at Bethesda we are our own publisher and developer and have free reign to make what we want."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We're NOT going to slap in features that don't work well just to say we have them."

[Pete] "Holidays this year"

[Pete] "You know if you have a 360 it will look as good as it can possibly look. If you have the latest, greatest PC with the best video card, etc., it will probably look the same as the Xbox 360 version."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "The compass, the quest marker and compass icons, are NOT the hand-holding, dumbing down babysitter some folks paint them out to be."

[Hayt] "We're around on a daily basis, and we're reading. When we're ready to comment on things, you'll all know."


[WARNING: Long post]

Some of them were true, most of the others were laughable.

Holy.... wow I hope that doesnt happen again. Ever. Some of those quotes... there are no words to describe...
User avatar
Chris Guerin
 
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 2:44 pm

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:15 pm

Not really, I am still worried. It might flop again (hopefully not). Let us not forget these posts:

Spoiler
[Kathode] "All screenshots we've released are 100% in game showing stuff we've already got implemented. We haven't done any special poses or anything like that, with the exception of magazine covers."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I'm sorry, but what part of "without losing our hardcoe rpg fans" don't you understand?"

[Slateman] "Each of the faction lines in this game have plots and quests to much greater depth over MW. Quality, not quantity."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."

[Todd] "As you play, you start to figure out what you can do with these NPCs, and how you can influence their behavior, and when doing a quest, it really comes into play. A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."

[VSXX] "We have everything from mice to moles to crickets. The most fearsome you have ever seen even! You thought sleeping at night with a singing cricket outside your window was bad. You wait till you meet the one that plays a 14 piece drum set outside your window."

[Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcoe RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

If you think this is a simple, dumbed down hack & slash, you couldn't be more wrong."

[BlueDev] "For Oblivion, there's a very concious effort to avoid too much random information spewing by NPCs. Fear not--there's still the same amount of info to be found in the game. In fact, the NPCs probably have more than ever to say; it just makes more sense for them to say it."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is infinitely superior to Morrowind in every conceivable way."

[MattRyan] "So for all of you thinking that it would be neat to steal something, and then take off on your horse....guess what? An NPC can do the same dirty trick to you as well. "

[Todd] "The clothing you wear does affect certain NPC's, but not in a big way, ita€?s subtle."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Broken shields and weapons are automatically dropped and they clatter to the ground using Havok physics. Broken armor stays on, but is ineffective and you'll know if you're wearing broken armor or not."

[Slateman] "While I cannot go into detail, rest assured that even players who max out a bunch of skills will discover challenges in this game. We didn't leave you guys out "

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Just because you can attempt to bribe someone does not mean they'll automatically accept it."

[MattRyan] "We are gamers. We have given tons of time toward the balance of gameplay. Asside from the designers, artists, programmers, and producers.... our staff of QA testers are extremely good at exploiting our game systems and looking for loopholes in gameplay, or shortfalls in fun vs. realism.

In conclusion, to completely cut out any adjustment to difficulty in enemies would not be fun, just as making all creatures off-set to your level would not be fun."

[Slateman] "Yep. To second MSFD, we don't auto-level exactly to your level. We have all sorts of adjustments available. If we didn't the game would be boring "

[MattRyan] "If everything was leveled then you'd have no fear of anything in the game ('I can beat everything!') We plan on scaring the heck out of the player by higher level creatures."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You're walking through a seedy part of a town in Western Cyrodiil. People mill about, some engaged in conversation, others minding their own business, out on their own errands. Suddenly, an ugly man decides he doesn't like you. Maybe he's drunk, maybe he's just a bully, maybe he's just showing off in front of his friends -- but for whatever reason, he has taken your measure and decided he can best you.

He comes charging at you, with a nasty looking mace in his hand and a look of hatred on his face. Onlookers move back to make room for what should be an entertaining fight.

Quickly drawing your sword and shield, you wheel around to face him. He's upon you pretty quickly though, and you barely have time to raise your shield (hold right mouse button) before his first blow thunders down upon you.

But you block well, and as he recoils from the collision, you quickly perform left & right slashes with your sword (left click, pause, left click). The bully realizes this isn't going to be easy.

He backs off a bit, and starts dodging around you. First to the left, then to the right. You maneuver to keep him in view, looking for an opening. Suddenly he steps back, raises his mace in both hands, and steps forward, bringing the mace towards your head in a crushing blow!

But you're quick -- you step to the side as he attacks. As he passes by, you execute a spinning maneuver and slash him in the side (hold left mouse button and left maneuver key). The hit is solid, and your foe staggers from the blow.

But it's not over yet. The bully swings his mace wildly -- his first swing misses, but the next one connects for a blow that sends you staggering. Pressing his advantage, the bully bears down on you with a power attack of his own. OUCH. This isn't going well. You take a glance at your health meter, it's getting a bit low. You quickly back up out of the bully's reach and raise your shield (hold right mouse button).

He's hurting, too. You circle each other for a time, looking for an opening, trying to recover some fatigue. Finally the bully charges forward with a devastating overhead blow, perhaps hoping to break your shield. But the shield holds and the recoil send him staggering back. This is your chance! You perform a mighty forward power attack (hold the left mouse button, press forward) and connect solidly. The blow staggers your foe once again, and you perform 3 slashing attacks in rapid succession (left mouse button, pause, left mouse button, pause, left mouse button), and finally the bully collapses to the ground, defeated.

The crowd disperses, going back to their own business."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We happen to think that console gamers are smarter than that, and the success of Morrowind on Xbox proves that console gamers actually ARE interested in games with MORE depth and complexity than some people seem to think they are."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I absolutely guarantee that they'll be able to make mods that will completely blow away anything we saw for Morrowind, using the new Construction Set."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You can only use the map-based fast travel to go to places you've already been. So you'll HAVE to walk to each possible location AT LEAST once."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We could make traditional creatures that looked like every other depiction of those creatures you've seen in books, movies, or other games, but then where's the originality in that?"

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "NPCs would have to be told to go into your house via Radiant AI. And even if they WERE, you could always lock your door..."

[Slateman] "Trust me, you're going to get lost if you wander in these forests and don't use the compass or map."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "you can enter every interior."

[Pete] "There isn't a magazine on the planet that hasn't gotten information if they've asked for it."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Resurrected NPCs are not themselves. They're basically mindless automata who will follow you around and fight for you."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is an extremely rich, complex game with a tremendous amount of depth, compelling quest lines, interesting NPC characters, a huge variety of player character types and intricate character progression set in a huge, varied game world. Combat, magic, and AI have all been dramatically improved to enhance gameplay while still providing a balance between player skill and character skill, because after all, Oblivion is a role playing game. Yes, some things that were present in Morrowind are not in Oblivion -- but a lot more has been added than removed, and the goal has always been to make a game that is both more accessible to first-time RPG players, and is also challenging and rewarding for more experienced players."

[Pete] "We will continue to support the mod community as best we can and let them do the great things they do, just as we did with Morrowind."

[Sentinel] "The sad fact is that many development studios can't afford to bankroll their own game development. So they rely on publishers to give them the money to create these games. The problem with this is that the publisher then feels they should have input into the game since they are spending the money. Hence Atari and EA have such a big influence on a game they publish.

Just glad here at Bethesda we are our own publisher and developer and have free reign to make what we want."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We're NOT going to slap in features that don't work well just to say we have them."

[Pete] "Holidays this year"

[Pete] "You know if you have a 360 it will look as good as it can possibly look. If you have the latest, greatest PC with the best video card, etc., it will probably look the same as the Xbox 360 version."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "The compass, the quest marker and compass icons, are NOT the hand-holding, dumbing down babysitter some folks paint them out to be."

[Hayt] "We're around on a daily basis, and we're reading. When we're ready to comment on things, you'll all know."


[WARNING: Long post]

Some of them were true, most of the others were laughable.


I think those quotes were contagious as I'm sure i've read similiar in the Oblivion modding forum

Anyway - there's a difference between lying and hype - I don't believe either but I can understand and forgive hype

If Bethesda have managed to pull off more of a random event style AI this would explain why it has been reported that non- quest giving NPC's don't have dialogue anymore
User avatar
Brooke Turner
 
Posts: 3319
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:13 am

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:54 pm

Oblivion radiant AI was toned down due to NPCs eventually becoming so smart that they would break quests, screw up with other NPCs and tons of other stuff that could make our experience less enjoyable.

*Throws hands in the air* How utter unpredictable chaos is supposed to make my experience LESS enjoyable ?

Seriously, though, they should have done a DLC with that or something. :P Sounds bloody awesome.
User avatar
!beef
 
Posts: 3497
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:41 pm

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:39 am

Anyone else think there are to many of these "Anyone else think that ____ might svck?"

Cause...there sure are a lot. <_<
User avatar
jess hughes
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:10 pm

Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:32 pm

Not really, I am still worried. It might flop again (hopefully not). Let us not forget these posts:

Spoiler
[Kathode] "All screenshots we've released are 100% in game showing stuff we've already got implemented. We haven't done any special poses or anything like that, with the exception of magazine covers."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I'm sorry, but what part of "without losing our hardcoe rpg fans" don't you understand?"

[Slateman] "Each of the faction lines in this game have plots and quests to much greater depth over MW. Quality, not quantity."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I know you don't want to hear it, but you're just going to have to trust us that the dialogue is better than Morrowind's."

[Todd] "As you play, you start to figure out what you can do with these NPCs, and how you can influence their behavior, and when doing a quest, it really comes into play. A simple 'get the diamond from that guy...' quest can be done in hundreds of ways now."

[VSXX] "We have everything from mice to moles to crickets. The most fearsome you have ever seen even! You thought sleeping at night with a singing cricket outside your window was bad. You wait till you meet the one that plays a 14 piece drum set outside your window."

[Pete] "Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I think the hardcoe RPG guys are going to love what we have in store for them in Oblivion. The depth, the level of polish...it crushes Morrowind. That doesn't mean that other people won't want to buy it and play it because it's a beautiful game that has fun combat and cool quests. We'll make enough copies for everyone."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You'll be reading LOTS of stuff. All of the quest lines are much more in depth, challenging and interesting. And there's a heck of a lot more to the game than just the guilds and the main quest. Lots and lots of other things to do that haven't been mentioned. Stats play a huge, huge role. Class actually has meaning this time. The game is better balanced. You have more rewards for advancement besides just getting better at things. The dungeons are better designed, the NPCs are more interesting, the dialogue is better written.

If you think this is a simple, dumbed down hack & slash, you couldn't be more wrong."

[BlueDev] "For Oblivion, there's a very concious effort to avoid too much random information spewing by NPCs. Fear not--there's still the same amount of info to be found in the game. In fact, the NPCs probably have more than ever to say; it just makes more sense for them to say it."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is infinitely superior to Morrowind in every conceivable way."

[MattRyan] "So for all of you thinking that it would be neat to steal something, and then take off on your horse....guess what? An NPC can do the same dirty trick to you as well. "

[Todd] "The clothing you wear does affect certain NPC's, but not in a big way, ita€?s subtle."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Broken shields and weapons are automatically dropped and they clatter to the ground using Havok physics. Broken armor stays on, but is ineffective and you'll know if you're wearing broken armor or not."

[Slateman] "While I cannot go into detail, rest assured that even players who max out a bunch of skills will discover challenges in this game. We didn't leave you guys out "

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Just because you can attempt to bribe someone does not mean they'll automatically accept it."

[MattRyan] "We are gamers. We have given tons of time toward the balance of gameplay. Asside from the designers, artists, programmers, and producers.... our staff of QA testers are extremely good at exploiting our game systems and looking for loopholes in gameplay, or shortfalls in fun vs. realism.

In conclusion, to completely cut out any adjustment to difficulty in enemies would not be fun, just as making all creatures off-set to your level would not be fun."

[Slateman] "Yep. To second MSFD, we don't auto-level exactly to your level. We have all sorts of adjustments available. If we didn't the game would be boring "

[MattRyan] "If everything was leveled then you'd have no fear of anything in the game ('I can beat everything!') We plan on scaring the heck out of the player by higher level creatures."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You're walking through a seedy part of a town in Western Cyrodiil. People mill about, some engaged in conversation, others minding their own business, out on their own errands. Suddenly, an ugly man decides he doesn't like you. Maybe he's drunk, maybe he's just a bully, maybe he's just showing off in front of his friends -- but for whatever reason, he has taken your measure and decided he can best you.

He comes charging at you, with a nasty looking mace in his hand and a look of hatred on his face. Onlookers move back to make room for what should be an entertaining fight.

Quickly drawing your sword and shield, you wheel around to face him. He's upon you pretty quickly though, and you barely have time to raise your shield (hold right mouse button) before his first blow thunders down upon you.

But you block well, and as he recoils from the collision, you quickly perform left & right slashes with your sword (left click, pause, left click). The bully realizes this isn't going to be easy.

He backs off a bit, and starts dodging around you. First to the left, then to the right. You maneuver to keep him in view, looking for an opening. Suddenly he steps back, raises his mace in both hands, and steps forward, bringing the mace towards your head in a crushing blow!

But you're quick -- you step to the side as he attacks. As he passes by, you execute a spinning maneuver and slash him in the side (hold left mouse button and left maneuver key). The hit is solid, and your foe staggers from the blow.

But it's not over yet. The bully swings his mace wildly -- his first swing misses, but the next one connects for a blow that sends you staggering. Pressing his advantage, the bully bears down on you with a power attack of his own. OUCH. This isn't going well. You take a glance at your health meter, it's getting a bit low. You quickly back up out of the bully's reach and raise your shield (hold right mouse button).

He's hurting, too. You circle each other for a time, looking for an opening, trying to recover some fatigue. Finally the bully charges forward with a devastating overhead blow, perhaps hoping to break your shield. But the shield holds and the recoil send him staggering back. This is your chance! You perform a mighty forward power attack (hold the left mouse button, press forward) and connect solidly. The blow staggers your foe once again, and you perform 3 slashing attacks in rapid succession (left mouse button, pause, left mouse button, pause, left mouse button), and finally the bully collapses to the ground, defeated.

The crowd disperses, going back to their own business."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We happen to think that console gamers are smarter than that, and the success of Morrowind on Xbox proves that console gamers actually ARE interested in games with MORE depth and complexity than some people seem to think they are."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "I absolutely guarantee that they'll be able to make mods that will completely blow away anything we saw for Morrowind, using the new Construction Set."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "You can only use the map-based fast travel to go to places you've already been. So you'll HAVE to walk to each possible location AT LEAST once."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We could make traditional creatures that looked like every other depiction of those creatures you've seen in books, movies, or other games, but then where's the originality in that?"

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "NPCs would have to be told to go into your house via Radiant AI. And even if they WERE, you could always lock your door..."

[Slateman] "Trust me, you're going to get lost if you wander in these forests and don't use the compass or map."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "you can enter every interior."

[Pete] "There isn't a magazine on the planet that hasn't gotten information if they've asked for it."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Resurrected NPCs are not themselves. They're basically mindless automata who will follow you around and fight for you."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "Oblivion is an extremely rich, complex game with a tremendous amount of depth, compelling quest lines, interesting NPC characters, a huge variety of player character types and intricate character progression set in a huge, varied game world. Combat, magic, and AI have all been dramatically improved to enhance gameplay while still providing a balance between player skill and character skill, because after all, Oblivion is a role playing game. Yes, some things that were present in Morrowind are not in Oblivion -- but a lot more has been added than removed, and the goal has always been to make a game that is both more accessible to first-time RPG players, and is also challenging and rewarding for more experienced players."

[Pete] "We will continue to support the mod community as best we can and let them do the great things they do, just as we did with Morrowind."

[Sentinel] "The sad fact is that many development studios can't afford to bankroll their own game development. So they rely on publishers to give them the money to create these games. The problem with this is that the publisher then feels they should have input into the game since they are spending the money. Hence Atari and EA have such a big influence on a game they publish.

Just glad here at Bethesda we are our own publisher and developer and have free reign to make what we want."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "We're NOT going to slap in features that don't work well just to say we have them."

[Pete] "Holidays this year"

[Pete] "You know if you have a 360 it will look as good as it can possibly look. If you have the latest, greatest PC with the best video card, etc., it will probably look the same as the Xbox 360 version."

[MrSmileyFaceDude] "The compass, the quest marker and compass icons, are NOT the hand-holding, dumbing down babysitter some folks paint them out to be."

[Hayt] "We're around on a daily basis, and we're reading. When we're ready to comment on things, you'll all know."


[WARNING: Long post]

Some of them were true, most of the others were laughable.




I -HOPE- they look at this, and make sure Skyrim isnt a repeat of what Oblivion could have been and wasn't
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laila hassan
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:19 pm

How is scripting a scene and passing it off as a radiant new AI system not lying?

Someone explain this to me.

If this is about the E3 demo again, it wasn't scripted. I had the quotes listed in other posts I've made about this, but I don't have the time to find them again now.

It wasn't scripted. It was set up specifically for the demo. Yes, demos were set up for E3, where the pc was ubered with the console, started out with advanced skills and 10,000 health and magic and the enemies were nerfed so they would be one shot kills. The 20 minute demo that had to show off the world, the combat system, the magic system, and the npcs that, again, had the settings changed with the console for the demo. To show off the AI, they set the schedules to run in a very short span of time. It wouldn't have been much of a demo watching the bookseller wake up, open her shop, stand around for a few in-game hours, head off to lunch, go back to work for a few more in-game hours, head off to dinner, and go to bed, to start over again the next day. Or they could have followed David Surile to work in his vineyard all day. That would have taken a lot longer than 20 minutes, and could have proved to be rather boring, as well. The AI had to be toned down because the npcs were screwing up quests. Finding a deserted town because the inn ran out of food and everyone left to find lunch, or finding a lot of dead npcs because one was supposed to do a job that needed a rake, and the other npc had it, so the first one killed him for it wouldn't have made players happy after the first "OMG that is funny" reaction. Enough people complained when they themselves broke a quest, if the game was breaking the quests all by itself, there would have been a lot of complaints. As it is, I've had to reload a few times because a lot of the IC marketplace npcs get into a brawl and end up dead.

Earlier thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157313-will-skyrim-trailers-and-previews-be-filled-with-lies/

When they released that demo, the game wasn't finished. It hadn't gone gold. Anything and everything was up for revision and change if needed. Just like the one screenshot people point at and say "lies", the fighter with his sword drawn on horseback, just because something was in a not final build doesn't mean its going to make it to the final "gone gold" version. Like the shadows that they wanted, but found would be too much for older/lower end system to handle. Other things mentioned were changed. It is one of the reasons I'm happy they didn't say anything about Skyrim until it was mostly done. In my perfect dream world, they wouldn't have even announced the game until it had gone gold. That way, whatever they talked about would be in the game, because the game was finished.
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Naazhe Perezz
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:01 pm

As many have stated I think they learned from their mistakes. Todd Howard is probably not going to do the same mistake again. And that is coming from a pesimist.
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Wayne Cole
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:43 pm

Without the fuzzy talk GI gave us, it's really just replaceable NPCs and random quests linked to your stats. There's nothing that couldn't been done in there, really, unlike the never-before-seen actually self-aware NPCs promised to be possible with the Radiant AI.
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Calum Campbell
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:27 pm

snip


Great post! Stop calling BGS crew, Todd and Pete liars.

They all wanted the game to be like they intended, maybe at some point during production every feature worked just as they wanted. But you always run eventually into technical issues and other tough decisions in design that breaks lots of stuff, and then you have to start all over or get rid of some things.

They did everything they could with Oblivion, they would have done more but they didn't have the time nor the money, now it might be possible, they are publishing their own game (Remember, it was 2K before, being your own publisher opens up a lot of freedom.) and they have been planning this for over 5 years.

I highly anticipated Fallout 3 before it's release, read every previews, watched every video, and in the end, the game turned out to be better than I expected. Everything I believed that would be in, was there and working better than ever. After Fallout 3, Bethesda really learned how to create a gigantic awesome game. And for this reason I am not worried with Skyrim, I am sure it will be a near flawless game, and even the best TES ever.
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Sami Blackburn
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:20 pm

I highly anticipated Fallout 3 before it's release, read every previews, watched every video, and in the end, the game turned out to be better than I expected.

So you had a version with a bazillion endings? Quests in Broken Steel that showed all those consequences of your actions during the main game?
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Adam
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:27 pm

Im not worried. If its a fraction of what they claim it to be, it will be better than nothing. Oblivions AI was leaps ahead over games at the time and even some games now. How the AI actually got up in the morning, ate, went out to do work or mingle with the towns people, maybe go to the tavern, then return home, eat and sleep. Compared to Morrowind where they... stood in one place in a house or just walked around outside. Or like Mass Effect where they dont even move.
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Danii Brown
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:47 pm

If this is about the E3 demo again, it wasn't scripted. I had the quotes listed in other posts I've made about this, but I don't have the time to find them again now.

It wasn't scripted. It was set up specifically for the demo. Yes, demos were set up for E3, where the pc was ubered with the console, started out with advanced skills and 10,000 health and magic and the enemies were nerfed so they would be one shot kills. The 20 minute demo that had to show off the world, the combat system, the magic system, and the npcs that, again, had the settings changed with the console for the demo. To show off the AI, they set the schedules to run in a very short span of time. It wouldn't have been much of a demo watching the bookseller wake up, open her shop, stand around for a few in-game hours, head off to lunch, go back to work for a few more in-game hours, head off to dinner, and go to bed, to start over again the next day. Or they could have followed David Surile to work in his vineyard all day. That would have taken a lot longer than 20 minutes, and could have proved to be rather boring, as well. The AI had to be toned down because the npcs were screwing up quests. Finding a deserted town because the inn ran out of food and everyone left to find lunch, or finding a lot of dead npcs because one was supposed to do a job that needed a rake, and the other npc had it, so the first one killed him for it wouldn't have made players happy after the first "OMG that is funny" reaction. Enough people complained when they themselves broke a quest, if the game was breaking the quests all by itself, there would have been a lot of complaints. As it is, I've had to reload a few times because a lot of the IC marketplace npcs get into a brawl and end up dead.

Earlier thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157313-will-skyrim-trailers-and-previews-be-filled-with-lies/

When they released that demo, the game wasn't finished. It hadn't gone gold. Anything and everything was up for revision and change if needed. Just like the one screenshot people point at and say "lies", the fighter with his sword drawn on horseback, just because something was in a not final build doesn't mean its going to make it to the final "gone gold" version. Like the shadows that they wanted, but found would be too much for older/lower end system to handle. Other things mentioned were changed. It is one of the reasons I'm happy they didn't say anything about Skyrim until it was mostly done. In my perfect dream world, they wouldn't have even announced the game until it had gone gold. That way, whatever they talked about would be in the game, because the game was finished.


This is a good post.
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Jason King
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:55 pm

That's one of the subjective ones (which I don't agree with). Others are stated facts which ended up to not be true at all.

Oblivion is my fav game, it blew me away when I played it, the AI was far better than MW or any other game I had ever played.
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Alexis Acevedo
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:22 pm

So you had a version with a bazillion endings?


Hah lol. Well, it indeed had lots of endings, problem is people were expecting over 9000 totally unique cinematic endings. Also, if I recall correctly, they always said they were permutations, little different things in each ending. Not full complete original endings.

Didn't care about this though, what I was most excited for were the gameplay mechanics.
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Strawberry
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:34 am

Oblivion's AI is still loads better than most games you see on the market. GTA4 and RDR's AI would run and scream when you started shooting, but all you have to do is run 10 feet the opposite direction and turn around and everyone is normal again. Red Faction Guerrilla's AI was godawful, whether it was the fact that every citizen on the entire planet was in the guerrilla movement or the fact that when wandering around on foot (and sometimes in a vehicle) an NPC would drive up and give you their car, even if you were really far away from civilization and didn't have any need for a vehicle. In Fable you can become world renown by burping and doing the same [censored] little dance over and over.

Yeah it wasn't what they said it was going to be but what the hell is in this world? How many games, movies, governments, or people say one thing and do another? All of them. Nothing fully delivers what they say they will. Neither will Radiant Story, but that doesn't mean it won't be [censored] spectacular.
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Brandon Bernardi
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:18 pm

I hope not. I recall writing a monolithic wall post in 2007 that partly described this very concept using a farmer as example. It went like this... The towns are all factionalized, and all faction members have access to certain knowledge of events concerning the PC. An NPC can have mebership in several factions, and base their decisions on everything they know 1st & 2nd hand. The example was of a farmer (three actually, but I'll shorten this). He was member to the town faction, a militia faction and a smuggler's faction. The PC stops by his farm and he praises their good deeds in the town while offering them forewarning of a militia ambush further up the road, and giving him a poisoned lunch (for busting up a smuggler's deal the night before). Examine his house and you'd find a Militia radio, a Smugglers map, and he lives near the town... faction ties could be ferreted out by the player. It would be possible to really lie to NPC's and them believe it until they learn otherwise, but if the player's action had no witnesses, then nobody knows for sure.


Radiant AI/Story AI sounds great if it works well (or even tolerably); I've been waiting years for an RPG to do this.
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:56 am

Clearly, we feel very differently about how Radiant AI worked in Oblivion. I'm expecting Radiant Story to be another good first attempt to do something new. I doubt they'll achieve all they'd like to the first time around, but I'm happy to see them experimenting. Guess I'm a glass half full rather than an if-it's-not-perfect-it's-worthless sort of player.
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Manuel rivera
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:29 am

Hah lol. Well, it indeed had lots of endings, problem is people were expecting over 9000 totally unique cinematic endings. Also, if I recall correctly, they always said they were permutations, little different things in each ending. Not full complete original endings.

Even that was bu.... highly exaggerated. At any rate, the factor of pure exaggeration is very low in the Skyrim coverage - at the moment. I'm fairly sure we'll see more 'OMG you can see single veins!' things coming up. But they seem to want to keep it down now, after the embarrassment tesfanner was so nice to summarise for us.
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Laurenn Doylee
 
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Post » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:47 pm

Even that was bu.... highly exaggerated. At any rate, the factor of pure exaggeration is very low in the Skyrim coverage - at the moment. I'm fairly sure we'll see more 'OMG you can see single veins!' things coming up. But they seem to want to keep it down now, after the embarrassment tesfanner was so nice to summarise for us.

Not exaggerated, just very (and I think unintentionally) misleading... Every change added doubles the number of permutations.
(even though none of us would consider most of them to be a significant change to the ending)

Spoiler
Matt Chat #91 is up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apg08u6n2YM

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Eileen Müller
 
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