Anyone remember this video back in 2005 explaining how detailed and amazing radiant AI was going to be and how it actually ended up being in the finished game?

Lots of people were outraged at how Bethesda used it as a main selling point for Oblivion then at the last minute basically explained it was going to be nothing like the videos/information of it and they had to remove all the awesome features due to "technical limitations".. Even more people were outraged when they found out the so called "Radiant AI" in the main video of it was COMPLETELY scripted and not actually a part of any radiant AI system at any date.

Video if you have forgotten about it/haven't heard about this before - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg

So basically, do you guys think this wonderful stuff we are hearing about a radiant story and radiant quests are going to turn out as a huge web of lies like how radiant AI did? From what I've been reading, it really sounds far too good/complicated to be true.

After reading the February 2011 issue of game informer and what Todd Howard has said about the Radiant Story feature it seems like it's going to be just like how Radiant AI was, too good to be true and won't ever make it into the finished game.. at least not in the state he is describing it.

Thoughts? Opinions?

While I do have that fear, I also think that Bethesda probably realizes that it might not be such a good idea to burn us twice in a row on similar things. I'm an optimist, so I'm thinking it'll be in.

I have confidence in Beth. In fact the "radiant story" sounds far more doable than NPCs having fluid, unscripted conversations, as per the Radiant AI thing.

That's what I thought to until I read the feb issue of game informer, if you look around on the net I'm sure you can find them. (Transcripts or scans)

But yeah some of the things he described seem far more complicated than Radiant AI ever did.

If they do decide to lie to us about such a huge feature two games in a row I'm going to be one unhappy gamer..

I think that with the new engine that BGS has this time around they will be able to incorporate the new Radiant A.I. and the Radiant Story. Because the Gamebryo engine so buggy that they had to remove things that they really wanted like true Radiant A.I. I think this time around they will be to incorporate them the right way.

Oblivion radiant AI was toned down due to NPCs eventually becoming so smart that they would break quests, screw up with other NPCs and tons of other stuff that could make our experience less enjoyable. If Bethesda wanted, they could implement the true Radiant AI again into Oblivion so we could experience it.

It was never a lie, it indeed worked just like it was intended, but for a number a reasons it had to be toned down or we would eventually become frustrated at NPCs behaviour.

During Oblivion's development, for instance, they run into an event with the AI that a wealthy but greedy and hungry NPC bought everything from the merchant's inventory, when the player finally met this merchant and wanted to trade with him, there were no items at all. Imagine if this happenened in your playthrough, how pissed would you be if you realized that you saved all that money for nothing?

But now, they had 5 years to perfect the old Radiant AI, and craft the Radiant Story. They learned from their mistakes and I tell you, we won't be disappointed with the final result, it will work just as intended. With some tweaking they can bring the true Radiant AI back to life with no problems.

I am not worried. And no one should be.

I totally agree with you. :thumbsup:

We might have another "acorn moment" on our hands!

Oh I know the system as a whole wasn't a lie but there was quite a big fuss years back about how that one video I linked was completely scripted and they were fibbing about it being radiant AI.. I seem to forgot how that was figured out but I'm sure it was "confirmed" it was scripted completely and not radiant AI as they had us believe.. I remember heaps of threads made by people cranky as all hell about it.

If they lie to us again, then anything complicated (like radiant story) that they announce in the future will have 0 credibility with me until i see it with my own eyes, on my own xbox360.

That being said, I will probably be fine with whatever watered-down AI they give me.

The Radiant Story doesn't seem to be that impressive anyway, so I have no fear they will fail doing that.

This.

No I don't have this fear because the radiant story is nowhere close to the complexity that the advertised Radiant AI should have been.

From reading what the feb game informer had in it, it seems veryyyy impressive, so impressive that I doubt whoever gave them the information was telling the truth or giving any/little factual information on the feature..

It basically said something like if you murder a shopkeeper in a village his sister/one of his family members will take over the store and will then perhaps offer you a quest that the one you murdered would have but instead will only do it in anger and extreme frustration because they can't find anyone else to do it.. It's thing like that I just can't believe, it means they would have to completely re-record that npc's voice acting for that specific quest with a "angry tone" in mind for when that situation happens.. it's not logical..

Also means they would have to record that quest's lines for every family member of the shopkeeper in case you killed them and such.. Get what I mean? It's not logical nor would Bethesda spend the sort of money it requires to do that sort of thing and have 2-5 voice actors for every quest doing the same lines..

Remember it well.

I do however, believe they will have learned from Oblivion in that respect and therefore I am quite optimisitic about Skyrim.

The whole radiant ai and radiant story system is part of why I`m excited about this game so much. I think they will deliver.

Of all the released info this one certainly has me the most concerned. I think the series has always had trouble balancing the random elements with the predefined ones. Now this new system sounds like it could work out really well, but if it is not implemented to its full potential ala R.A.I. in Oblivion, it could be an utter failure.

I had not seen the promotional video for Oblivion, but the game has a radiant AI. What do you think the AI packages are?

Just a suggestion but perhaps you should view the video I linked in my first post? The game did not have radiant AI as was first described. If you look at that video and from the information they were giving us all those years ago it was explaining a AI system a hundred times more complicated and intricate than what the finished game actually had.

As I said, watch the video I linked and you will see what I mean.

I don't think they'd make that mistake twice (showing something when they didn't know for sure that it would be delivered). I'm optimistic and very interested to hear more about the radiant story and AI.

Without picking on him it's not "They" that has lied to us or is spreading how absolutely amazing and intricate the radiant story system is.. It's just "Todd Howard".. He's the one in the video I linked, the one that directly lied to us about that video being radiant AI when it was actually scripted events and it's him that has explained the radiant story system to game informer in this feb issue..

He's a good game developer don't get me wrong but he does seem to exaggerate things quite a bit, I've seen that in many interviews/showcases with him all the way from Oblivion-Fallout-Skyrim.

To counter: Although I'm not worried about Radiant Story Skyrim, its not so much that Radiant AI was "toned down" for Oblivion from what we saw in trailers, its that what made the final game was flat out bad. What was a main selling point turned out to be nothing more than NPCs performing badly animated actions one after the other, in a way that still managed to be annoying - people jumping off bridges, or my favourite, Quill Weave being accused of attracting mountain lions, when she had the fairly water tight alibi of being in Chorrol for about a week.

I was amazed by the AI in OB, I remember when I first got to a town and seeing one npc walk up to another and start talking, I was freaking out. Not long after that seeing some dude walking from one town to another. A person on horseback delivery papers to each town, I was amazed. Even to this day I am always so impressed when playing say FO3 and coming across a battle in progress, back in OB when I first came upon some random dead animal and then not long after saw some dude hunting in the woods or fighting bandits,I was astounded.

I don't ignore long gamplay videos,etc as I don't want things spoiled for when I play, so perhaps I did not have as high expectation as others. That being said I still was aware of Radiant AI and expected it make npcs more realistic than any other rpg or game I have played and it delivered. And other than the Fallouts, I still have not played a game that exceeds or even matches the Radiant AI in OB/FO3/NV. They sleep, they eat, they pick up and use stuff, they can go all over the map, they get into fights,etc Awesome.

I think Skyrim will take that to the next level.

I just played TW2 and Risen, open world rpgs release long after OB and they don't come close to reaching what OB does.

Oh! I had not seen the link. I'll see the video now, thanks!

Either which way I still reckon he/they won't make the same mistake twice.

I'm pretty sure the deceased shopkeep was apart of another quest an got slain because of it and that the sister taking up the shop was scripted rather than being a random event that one can repeat consistently throughout the game, I'll wait when it's released to get a proper grasp of what's being offered.

I personally am refraining from reading to much into the features, certain threads talking about everyone being replaced by their siblings and siblings siblings were just beyond silly.

So wait, and see...