I don't really mind the beginning.

As long as it's not a long tutorial like in OB, or atleast skipable this time, a prison start will be ok.

its as good as any other start :shrug:

The TES prison starts are brilliant. You could have ended up there in any way. You still get into the story because of what happens. And what happened before that is up to you.
Besides that it is also tradition by now.

I do not find the concept of starting as a type of prisoner as being lame, merely because the theme is repeated.

Think about Daggerfall, where one starts out shipwrecked, then think about the start of the Age of Conan, then think of Robinson Crusoe, then think about the new Tomb Raider (Survivor/Reboot) story beginning, that begins to be a bit cliche, also.

Many literary story beginnings can be cliche.

With respect to creativity, I would think that the TES storytellers are given "direction" on how they are to start the game.

I am not faulting anyone for thinking "out of the box," but, again, I do not think the prisoner theme as a start is necessarily lame.

With both Oblivion and Skyrim, I have enjoyed and continue to enjoy creating various background stories for some of my characters, some of them quite detailed. This process is encouraged by TES.

Edit to add: WIth respect to tradition, Todd Howard even calls this concept a tradition. I don't know what higher authority one could attain.

I'm also very dissapointed that I can't choose Protoss as my race

Elder Scrolls does an exemplary job of letting you "be who you want to be" while simultaneously presenting a narrative that you participate in.

To start that narrative, they must start "somewhere", and there's no reason why it shouldn't be the inside of a prison cell if it suits their purposes. That's the one hinge point where "who you want to be" and "all stories start somewhere" must meet. Its a pretty benign issue if you ask me, and if it presents too big a roleplay challenge, then I submit that one's roleplaying needs tuning.

Squeaky clean Paladin in prison? That's life. Innocent people get condemned unjustly all the time, especially in primitive cultures. How is your formerly squeeky clean Pally going to deal with it though? That's the more interesting question.

Noble blooded rich boy now a penniless prisoner? Oops, that's life too. How is he going to deal with it.

To have a story at all, the game must have a narrative context, and the very presence of the narrative will restrict a small number of visions of a player's history. I'm of the opinion that prison is a great equalizer, and thus a great place to start a story.

:facepalm:

No, it didn't. Yes, the king told you you're a loyal friend or ally. It doesn't mean he is right about you. It doesn't even mean he believes that, he could be as well lying his [censored] off. In fact, we know he was lying to you on another matter, why couldn't the "friend and ally" line be a well-crafted lie as well?

I L?ve the prison starts.

I'm just tired of the fact that no matter what background you come up with for your characters they all end the same way "...and that's how I ended up in prison".

I'd prefer a much more neutral start that allows for some variety at least.

Such as?

- A trader on the road being attacked by bandits! - oh, wait, that requires me to be a trader.

- Hunting in the woods, when being attacked by a dragon! - no, that requires me to be a hunter..

- Sneaking into a castle, trying to rob something from someone! - Nope, then I have to be a thief.

- Wandering the streets of a city! - No wait, what a dull person my character is, and nothing really happens in the beginning of the game!

- Wandering on the roads in the wild, when I'm attacked by a dragon! - No, my clothing/armor/weapon would tell me what kind of character I am.

Nope... Prison IS the best way to start; you know NOTHING of your background!
Starting anywhere else would have elements that reveals something of who you are, like your clothes, your companions, your armor, your weapon.

Quick!

1. Find one quotable instance of me calling Beth lazy, and,

2. Find one quotable instance of me bemoaning imaginative RP

A cookie for whoever finds these posts!

Now, if you had read anything I posted, you would see that I dislike the prison intro not because it forces me to think about how my character got there (durrrr), but because it assumes something about my character that may or may not be true. Plopping the character in prison doesn't necessarily inspire the player to think of a clever backstory for how they got there - it simply is. A more neutral intro could incorporate any RP idea the player can think of, and then some.

You obviously don't know me very well if you accuse me of not investing in the backstory of my characters, as it's my primary motivation for playing the game: roleplaying. My characters each have intricate backstories - is it so wrong that I wish some of them didn't include a stint in prison?

Just drop me off on a dock having stepped off a boat. Place me in a random camp in the middle of the map. Give a choice of starting points in the major cities or just pick one at random.

All of which are wide open to your own interpretations of how you got where you are and don't force a "oh yeah by the way I got arrested and am now in prison" to end every single story you come up with.

Exactly. Say you're a refugee from Cyrodiil, arriving in Skyrim by boat to find your fortunes away from the chaos of the capital. Say your vessel is attacked by a dragon (a great way to introduce the game's primary nemesis), washing you ashore with none of your items or weapons, forcing you to fight your way to the nearest city or village.

It just seems...odd...that almost every great hero in Tamriel began their journey as a prisoner. Do the Gods favor the condemned, or something?

Why not then just unceremoniously start the game?

You pick your character's name, race, then the game just starts in the middle of the map. No intro, no tutorial, no prison.



The sad thing is some people would prefer this way...

Personally yeah, I would. The popularity of the alternative start mods seems to suggest I'm not alone.

You suffer under the assumptian that it must be an all or nothing thing - either it must be exciting and story driven or completly bland and neutral. It musn't be so.

I already offered one decent alternative. I'm sure the minds at Bethesda could think of something infinitely better.

:goodjob:

Thing is "arrived by ship" is already pretty damn bland.

It can be made exciting, just as the traditional prisoner intro can be made exciting, by tying the event to the story and making the player care about the outcome.

The problem is that if you arrive by ship, you will most likely be dressed up in clothes or armor that would imply what kind of character you are.
Unless, you start the game on the shores after the attack from a dragon, but then it would be kinda boring.

Well, it musn't be by ship, that was just an example. You could lose your equipment in the crash and be left with sopping rags, for all I know. I'm just tossing out ideas. Whatever I've got, Bethesda could easily do better.

Make no mistake: I'm going to play Skyrim's intro as a prisoner and I'm going to love it. It's just a case of wondering "what could have been?".

the only real issue i have with it is that i imagine that if in real life i was going to be executed and then five minutes later they tell me i need to save them from a fiery death, i would say "sure ill help you". then i would hop on a plane as quickly as i could, piss out the planes window over them and fly away from them and leave them to said fiery death. i would be laughing the whole time. i guess ill have to pretend to be a more caring individual when i role play.

I think it might be hard to find a plane in TES.