It's all good

This thread seemed pretty bash-free until you joined in. No one's bashing the devs or their story-telling ability. We're just suggesting alternaties to a trope that some of us feel is becoming a bit stale.

read the op again he bashs the devs

Not possible bro, my level 1 thief is uncatchable. By definition he cannot be caught, that's a paradox. It's his innate ability that he has in my RP but doesn't ACTUALLY have because not only is he not strong enough from the start of the game to be that skilled but such an ability isn't even in the game... he totally has it though

he aint bashing DEVs read it it makes sense

No, I don't. There's nothing there really regarding design. I said the design is cheap, but I meant in terms of the story. In a game, a story has a design as well, especially when that design includes an element of non-linearity.

You do realize you can provide constructive commentary on your desires without calling the devs lazy, cheap, corner cutters with unsatisfactory storytelling skills right?

Umm, it's not "Morrowind Magic", being in prison was in Arena, you were imprisoned in a shipwreck, you were a prisoner in Morrowind and you were a prisoner in Oblivion and now your a prisoner in Skyrim. Now let's look at them in more detail. Arena's jumping off point was that you were imprisoned for being against Jagar Tharn then a sorceress who got killed helps you out. In Daggerfall, your ship crashes and your imprisoned in a cavern. You end up making your way out of the cavern and get into the Illiac Bay region. Morrowind starts as a prisoner sent to Morrowind for an undisclosed reason and when your freed, your sent to do a job and your role unfolds. In Oblivion your a prisoner and you follow the emperor out of your cell and your left to fend for yourself in the tunnels and you end up rejoining the emperor and your role in the Oblivion Crisis unfolds. In Skyrim, you start out captured on the border of Skyrim and imprisoned and sent to be executed but you get free and the events will unfold from there. They all start you out in prison but all of them are radically different events and all allow you complete freedom to build your own backstory.

...just because you didn't bash the design didn't mean you didn't bash the devs. I'd vehemently disagree that you weren't bashing the design anyhow. Saying they cut corners to the point where it's a circle seems to imply that you think they cut corners in places BESIDES the story too.

But anyway, now that it is FIRMLY ESTABLISHED that you were bashing them. As for the actual topic: I like the prisoner motif. It gives my character an edge to play with. A warrior put in prison for being too rowdy seems even rowdier, an evil guy put there for being evil seems more evil, an innocent guy put there for a misunderstanding seems like even more of a martyr or empathetic figure. It's fun

The game has to start somewhere. Every main Elder Scrolls game so far has started you out as a prisoner or in a dungeon of some kind. I see no reason change that.

By the Nine, Sinister, you are rather arrogant. I was not bashing the devs, also known as the developers. I like how they go about the design of their game and how they create memorable experiences through gameplay and environment alone because the story certainly doesn't do it for me. I have criticized them in the past, but at this particular moment I am regarding story and believe me that the Elder Scrolls series likes to snip off things in order to make a player believe they have complete control over every facet of the story. Noble idea, yes, but it's very poorly executed not because of the people making the game itself but the people who try to give the game life.

Now to Sleign. I understand it didn't start with Morrowind, but the majority out of both the Bethesda dev core and the player base say that Morrowind was their first and best. Catering to the epic feelings of nostalgia's past is nothing new, of course, but the fact that they directly followed up Morrowind with Oblivion's opening merely told me that they really were trying to make the game seem a lot more epic than it actually was. And Daggerfall was different. You are isolated, and I think that is the tradition, not specifically being in a prison. Despite the minor changes from the other games though, it's still the same scenario and it does not strike me as trying to take the story in new directions.

Yea because we all know that throughout history there has never been a squeaky clean person that was tossed into prison by a tyrannical, overbearing ruler. Being in prison doesn't necessarily mean you did anything wrong. It happens to good people all the time even today. Or you could be starting out in the enemy prison much like Kevin Costner did in that Robin Hood movie.

But I agree it's kind of an unimaginative way to start the game. It's their game though and these games usually last so long that the beginning is soon forgotten. So I'm not to worried about it.

By developers I am saying anyone employed by BGS that works on the game. Most, if not all, story elements are written by employees. Oftentimes they do other things on the game as well. Saying that the writing is bad is the same as saying the devs are bad. Saying the writing is bad because you start in a prison is incoherent. Morrowind had an amazing story and you started as a prisoner

No it isn't. Did I insinuate they are bad people? Did I say that they were bad at anything but writing? Did I say that I won't by the game based on the writing?

Incoherent? I've stated my reasoning behind it, I.E there are many different ways they could do it otherwise, and it will be all about opinions. I personally am not a fan of the stories in the games for a variety of reasons, but as it comes to introductions this is the biggest problem that I see.

Really? :facepalm: "You're lazy dude. I mean, not lazy at cooking, just lazy at cleaning" Calling someone lazy is calling someone lazy



Just because you aren't a fan of the stories doesn't mean the writing is bad. Just might mean you have bad taste. Morrowind is at least in my top 5 or 10 best storylines in a game. Personally I didn't care about Oblivion's story but that was more because I didn't like the main quests so couldn't really get into the story. Regardless, saying you don't like the intro has nothing to do with the storytelling. The context of the intro has nothing to do with the story, it's a RP tool. TES games are about nudging you in a direction, not telling you exactly what to do and forcing you to do it.

You look at this like it's a personal matter. It's not. It's their job. People can do badly at one facet of a job and still excel at others.


This is exactly what I thought of anyone who enjoyed District 9. OPINIONS MAN, WE CAN HAZ THEM. I think my taste may be generic, but I'm not someone praising Stephanie Meyer for her work.


Good for you. I thought it had a cool twist, but the story as it was was nothing spectacular. Different opinions!


Oh wow.... That's quite ignorant. Think to Oblivion's intro. The entire plot revolved around what happened in that prison. It is a story-telling device as well as that "nudge" as you put it, and there are different ways it can be done. I would like to see it done differently, since both scenarios have many different ways that do not involve officials or chains.

The problem I see with backstories outside of jail is that it can become inconsistant between all of the races. Say Skyrim started your backstory off as a barbarian of sorts who is attacked by a dragon or something. Well, It works Maybe for Nord, Orc, etc. but it would be awkward as an Elf. I think the jail scenario is perfect because any race can end up in jail for any sort of reason. Their's various sorts of crimes that could be made up by the player, and helps the initial part of gameplay seem more connectable. Also a forced backstory kills my chances of making the character that I want. Just use your imagination a little bit, it's only like 20 minutes of the game anyway.

Except they aren't bad at their job and are one of the best storytellers in RPGs



Revolved AROUND what happened in that prison. It could have happened anywhere. It didn't really have that much to do with being in a prison.

I'll say it again: Opinion.

But it did, and the writers made it so that the events happened in the intro in the prison and thus that became important due to the isolation of the location. I, personally, do not like this.

...you were in the sewers. The only reason the prison was important was because the passage was there. They coulda had the passage behind a bookcase, it didn't matter

Why dont you give an example of what stories do it for you, then we might find a common ground, other then the rather obvious Morrowind, because you just sound like one of the guys who refer back to Morrowind for everything you want in a game, I for 1 never found Oblivions story lacking, but rather the story was fine just the following of the quests was tedious to a degree, mainly because I felt obliged to follow it to conclusion once I started it, mainly to close the gates that annoyed me by the time I had put in well over 200+ hrs, but most of oblivion was a step up from Morrowind in many ways, and why take the start of the game in a different direction ? or are you speaking of our character as needing direction, mine didn't,nor do i ever desire for my character to be directed, I want as many options to deviate from the main story as is possible, which would be very hard to do if they gave too much info or background for your character, we are now getting very close to saying we want a more linear game, and that is just a big fat NO for me, leave the ends cut, let me guess at my own beginnings, let me discover the main story by accident even. JMO

Well, if it was could the game the have started out with you hiding behind the bookcase? Take a step back because you lost your point. Might as well just save it anyway because it's all falling on deaf ears.

A) It's tradition. Traditions don't always make sense.

B- You're essentually a blank tablet that way. (As for the Paladin's rep being besmerched...dude, you wuz framed and are perfectly innocent! )

C) I've truely never even remembered being a prisoner while playing the game unless it's brought up directly to me. If they don't remind you of it, who cares and just write your own history :shrug:

D) people think too much

Not lame, at all. If TES ever changes this, I'll be PO'd. Almost as PO'd as I was when they said abilities were out of Skyrim.

Its a tradition.
The majority likes it.
It gives the opportunity for great roleplaying.

Why must this be debated over and over?

I wouldnt really think of it as an elder scrolls game if the beginning wasnt purpously vague about who you are.