http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1182857-anyone-else-find-the-starting-in-prison-plot-again-lame/

Hey there all. After a lack of response from the OP of the original thread in the link above, I've decided to take initiative and start this topic again because I believe it is a very important thing to discuss in terms of Bethesda's stories and so forth.

My own personal stance regarding the issue is that yes, Bethesda is being rather cheap with this design. I understand fully where they are coming from in a technical and story standpoint with the ability to have the world revealed to you, teach you the basics, establish your playstyle, and make your own backstory. My problem with this though is just the outright laziness of it. Not only is this the fourth time, but it's rather a testament that I found Morrowind's opening more interesting when I just forgot I was a prisoner and just said I was a traveler. Daggerfall's was exciting too, since it immediately gave you a risk factor and allowed the world to be revealed in a very grand style as a sense of accomplishment.

Due to Daggerfall as well, it's clear that it's not just "tradition" that keeps it there. It's the fact that they don't want to let loose of the Morrowind magic by trying to give people a good first impression, which it is not giving me. I know people really like to make every asset of their backstory, but it seems nobody cares much about their character progression since no one is really too ticked about becoming the Dovakiin. How about, like in Daggerfall, we put a single fact about our past as a definite which would allow us to start in a new scenario? It doesn't have to be the friend of the king, perhaps just the fact that you are an explorer of some sort. That doesn't conflict with people who wish to play pacifists or goody two-shoes people.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I really want Bethesda to step up their games in terms of story-telling. Most of their attempts have cut so many corners that it resembles a circle. Thank the Nine for the actual game. Let's here everyone's thoughts though.

It's kind of brand new in Skyrim though, in case you didn't know...

You start in a prison, yes, but in the beginning, you are being taken out to be executed - now that's kind of new!
And, sorry mate, starting in a dungeon/prison is Elder Scrolls Tradition, and that's the way we want it!

No, Because say if your in prison for real. Your house, car, and any assets get taken away from you when you go to prison. So when you get out of prison you've basically got nothing except for friends and family if your lucky. Bethesda does this because your starting your life all over again and you have to pick up the pieces.

Agreeing, if only because it limits cohesive roleplaying possibilities. For example, one will never be able to play as a spotless, squeaky-clean paladin, beyond all ridicule or suspicion. That would be a lame character, granted, but it's of the table so long we're we're starting in prison. There's always a reason to be had for your character to wind up in jail, if the player is imaginative enough (or even cares), but they could just as easily start you as a guy off the street who may have been to prison at some point in his life. As it is, I don't want the game assuming things about my character. New Vegas handled this beautifully - the Courier could be anyone and everyone, from every walk of life. Nothing about your origin suggested anything about your character.

Not only is it tradition, but it's a tradition with thematic importance.
There's nothing wrong with it.

No, because I can dispel belief. Most of my characters never started in prison, they started where I wanted them to start.

It's tradition.

I don't want to be given a back story in these games, or to choose from some pre-sets, so I don't have a problem with this continued tradition. I wouldn't object to doing something else, perhaps giving the player a few options in where they start in a town (and the main quest hook occurring when you first leave) but a prison start seems fine to me.

No problem with the prison start - there is supposed to be a civil war going on likely you got picked up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As I stated above, it can be anything where the character must work his way out of trouble into the world. The three 16 bit ones made did not start in a prison. Not Reguard, not Battlespire, and not Daggerfall. Yes, they were more primitive games, but people can at least admire their stories if naught else.

How is "a spotless, squeaky-clean paladin, beyond all ridicule or suspicion" off the table when starting in a prison? Where's your imagination man?!
Who's to say the people running the prison are the good guys? They could be evil people holding there just because you are a spotless, squeaky-clean paladin, beyond all ridicule or suspicion!

Ok, how's this..."Todd said it's tradition." Better?

We are going to get executed. How does that bare any resemblance to Oblivion's beginning? Or Morrwind? Daggerfall? Arena? All different. Ummm yeah, that doesn't look like laziness...

Bethesda is fully capable of making a whole new theme for their beginning, but will they? No. It's tradition. Not laziness, that's the worse arguement I've heard on this subject.

He wasn't there from the beginning.

He's there now and he said so himself. Good enough for me.

Daggerfall had you starting out in a dungeon, which was arguably similar.
Redguard and Battlespire aren't part of the main series.

The theme of "Prisoner to Hero" is one that's been a big part of TES from the very beginning, and it works very well.

eeeh, were you around when everything you call tradition was made a tradition? I don't think so...

I think it is just the best way to open a game, a jail will limit the player but still allow them to get basic controls like walking and it does make a good backstory, and also it is a great way to make sure that the main character isnt attached to anyone

i dont mind either way, as long as the beginning remains mainly blank so that i can imprint my character onto it im not fussed. The opening is important its where lots of gamers make their first impressions but your only there for about 15 minutes and in the grand scheme of things... :shrug:

I disagree here, really. Starting in prison gives plenty of leeway for starting with a "blank slate" and devising an intriguing character backstory. Perhaps even moreso, I'd argue, than a more mundane and orthodox starting sequence could. By starting as a prisoner, you can choose to justify (or not justify) your character's imprisonment however you so choose. If the game just plopped you down in some random town, sure, perhaps there's no "status" associated with your character to lampshade anymore, but there's plenty of other issues. "Why specifically this town?"

Not to mention with attributes gone, we have even fewer shreds of "tradition" left to hold on to in the Elder Scrolls series.

its elderscrolls its classic!

Starting in prison is actually a very good way of starting you out at the bottom of the pile and forcing you to work your way up. Rags to riches, sort of thing. Anyone could feasibly end up in prison, even if it's being convicted for a crime they didn't commit. The way I see it, this kind of start actually allows more room for development of your characters background; doesn't matter if you're a prince or a beggar, straight out of prison you'll have no possessions but the clothes on your back.

I'm on board with the prison start. If something else made sense that would be okay too. I think the essence is simply creating a circumstance that has you start off from square one, and prison accomplishes that. I don't really want/need a backstory. When I start the game, the story is in front of me... not behind. It's largely impossible to start the character off in a "vacuum" so-to-speak with no history, no relationships, no possessions, etc. But the prison backdrop leans that direction, which I like. Essentially, I don't want a big back story.

As I said in my post, I'm aware that any RP'er worth his salt could easily explain away a selfless champion starting out in prison. The issue, as I see it, is that they shouldn't have to. There are other ways for the player to start out without any resources or connections that don't heavily imply a criminal background. We could be assaulted by a dragon on our travels, leaving us broken, beaten, and penniless, or something to that effect. The point is, such an intro wouldn't give me an instant RP hurdle to explain away.

I personally love the fact we are starting in a prison again. I cant think of a better way to start in TES games.