lol.

The idea of games I have to keep paying a monthly fee to play drives me up a wall. That said I am tempted by the potential of Guild Wars 2 as far as MMO's go but I've never been one for them.

Oh and I forgot. Restructure the balance of Daedric and Dragon armors and add Dragon smithed weapons. The whole it's hard to get Daedric mats is true......with maybe your first character or two at the most.

Lot of liars and fools here.

Liars because unless you go out of your way to exploit loops, Master is still plenty difficult bar all but lower level enemies, as it should be. I know, I've tested it and played with it extensively. Even doing recursive loops to get a 900 dam battleaxe, plus an insane 100 fire and 100 shock damage on it, plus a set of armour way above the cap of 567, an ancient dragon is still tough. I haven't been arsed going to find a Draugr Deathlord mob, but I'm satisfied half of the complainers are either lying about not exploiting, and the other half are simply trolling.

Fools because we already lost spellmaking, and one has to presume it's because people complained about it being OP in Oblivion. Thanks a lot min-maxers. I for one appreciate that a LOT. TES VI will probably have no alchemy, smithing or enchanting. Oh, delicious fun!

For Gods sake, if you choose to ruin your game with exploits, don't whinge and whine about it. It's your choice. Live with the consequences of your choices like advlts. The bloke early in the thread who compared you to 8 year olds, well, that was just wrong. He should have halved it.

No. This isn't a multiplayer game. If the player wants to screw the challenging aspects over and become a demi-god, let him. His loss, I say!

That's not why Bethesda removed spell creation. Also getting rid of Alchemy/Enchantment/Smithing loop only addresses a small part of the current Skill disparity issues.

Instead of calling you a liar or a fool I could call you physically disabled or someone of low intelligence. You saying it's difficult is no different than someone else saying it's easy without any proof like all the videos on youtube of people plowing through enemies.

When it's just stupid %'s that are ruining the skill lines Bethesda could fix the problem by tomorrow. Removing an entire skill line because they don't know how math works says more about Bethesda than the players.

Don't stoop to that level with insults. You would be displaying the maturity he claims those who disagree with him have.

I won't. I just don't get why people are so afraid to hold a company to a certain standard (for what little impact we even have by posting on a forum.) And why posters take suggestions on changes to the game so personally.

Also skill worth issues IS a problem for a single player game. ESPECIALLY games that are dependent on a sales pitch of open world sandbox style as it leads to one true buildism. Also people who talk about avoiding the currently God skills(enchanting/smithing) need to learn what the Rule Zero Fallacy is.

Then I must be doing something wrong. Because it took me (with a final 15-20 point focussed push - via raiding mines/etc) until level 48 to hit 100 Smithing. Using materials that I found while adventuring. This is going up the Light Armor side, of course, so I've got a few hundred dwarven bars lying around that I couldn't use.

Once I got there, I used the couple +Smithing items that I'd found in loot (+20, +15) and one of the small handful of +Smithing potions I'd found(+40), to improve the Daedric sword I found in a chest. It's 103 damage, with the 1-handed perks and skills I've gotten (and a +15 or 20 one-handed damage ring).

My game isn't unbalanced - the larger dragons and tougher bosses give me a good workout. And I don't "one shot" anything that isn't an early-game enemy (like the first tier or two of Forsaken. Or wolves.)

On Adept. (edit: oh, and without "having to pretend I'm an idiot" or "self nerfing")

:shrug:

The early Whiterun area bandit mine with iron ore+transmute spell pretty much means early easy AND profitable 100 Smithing that incidentally also sets you up well for enchanting power leveling.

I'm pretty sure I was talking about leveling smithing "as you go"/"naturally", and without synergizing with the other crafting, not setting up for power leveling.

First like I said in the post you quoted. It doesn't matter how or why you reach 100. If someone makes a character who they envision as a blacksmith and that's all they focus on maybe they'll reach 100 smithing by level 15 (complete guess; doing non-combat related quests, buying metals/leathers, reselling items made etc) and be decked out in really cool looking Daedric gear. If there's nothing wrong with you playing the way you wish to... what's wrong with someone choosing to be a blacksmith character/wear Daedric armour as early as possible? The only reason it's considered being a power game is because Bethesda has handled balancing so poorly. All they need to do is fix the numbers. The fact it is possible to get the game breaking numbers possible without exploiting (it is not exploiting, power gaming sure when you max every last bit of the alchemy/enchanting/smithing) is very lazy on Bethesda's part.

Well let's just start with the first thing you're doing wrong. I said by the time you can craft your own Daedric items which will be a lot more powerful than one you find as well as being able to improve them twice as much. Also I never claimed you could one shot anything.

Edit: Or even as MrMephistopheles pointed out.

Well, yes, you can get your skills to 100. You can get all of them to 100, if you want. You can get as many of them up to 100, if you want. That's the point, you've finally gotten high enough in skill level to craft powerful gear.

But I have a hard time understanding how it offsets the balance, because I'm playing on Adept, see? And I have a full set of glass armor that puts my AR at 598, which is apparently above the AR cap, so I apparently have maximum protection. And I can still get my ass handed to me by Ancient Dragons, Elder Dragons, Draugr Deathlords, Dragon Priests, various types of mages, Forsworn, and bandits. I am not invincible, and this is on Adept. I haven't even tried out Master yet.

And TES has always been that way, once you get powerful, that's the logical result: You are powerful. Did you know that in Morrowind, it was possible to kill a major character in that game who was a GOD? Level 100, 3000 health, and a god. All the power one would be expected to wield, and it was possible to get powerful enough to take him on and paste him.



Perhaps for you, but not for nearly as many people as you'd like to think. So...congratulations on being able to easily beat the game that a lot of other people still find challenging? I'm still finding it challenging on Adept, and at level 65 with several skills at 100, including Sneak, Enchanting, Smithing, and Conjuration. Light Armor is at 94 with all the all the perks taken in Agile Defender, 88 in Archery, 89 in Two-Handed, 75 in One-Handed. All that power at my own disposal, with excellent gear improved and enchanted for dealing out the damage. And on Adept, I'm still finding challenge. I should one-shot weak enemies, because I no longer am so weak as I was when I began the game, when a novice mage would make me question if I could take a different route.



I got that anology, yes, but it doesn't quite make sense to me, because by my own example? I played a sneak-thief who relied on the bow (a first, they always svcked for me in Morrowind and Oblivion) and sneak attacks, especially since I went the glass cannon route with upping my magicka for the first 30 levels. I could not survive toe-to-toe fights without a lot of luck and fast footwork. Barely bothered with one-handed. Then, around level 50, I decided to try using my elven warhammer for a laugh before finishing a dungeon so I could sell it with the rest of my loot. Two-Handed was at a pitiful 20. And I ended up keeping that warhammer and it become my mainstay weapon as I moved more towards melee style combat and away from strictly just bows and arrows. I ignored the skill for the longest time, but then I ended up picking it up and finding it to be pretty awesome and powerful in its own right.

You don't have to ignore the skill altogether. Just put less emphasis on leveling it up. Grind it less. Nobody's forcing you to smith more than one item, you could always just smith as you go along, and pay more attention to other aspects of the game, like sneaking. You have all the choice in the world given you. Just because you can level up smithing a lot in a short amount of time doesn't mean that you have to, does it? You can smith 1 thing, you can smith 5 things, 50 things, a thousand things, it's your prerogative.



This really doesn't make much sense, and I really don't know where this is coming from.



And I'm pretty sure I made it clear I know what patches are and what they do.



You say "fixed," because you seem to find some problem with it, whereas I have yet to find any problem. If they change it, then they change it. But don't think that just because I don't care how someone plays his game means that I'm not going to contribute my own feedback where and when applicable. So please don't ask me to ignore a thread like this, and I won't tell you where to shove your feedback, dig?



And it's like Bethesda put them in the game and made them that way by accident, right?

Fact is, Bethesda has tended to cater to all flavors of playing their games, from wanting to be someone who only fights in clothing to being the uber-powerful demi-god and everything in between.

Which is not the point. You posted, "Then I must be doing something wrong. Because it took me (with a final 15-20 point focussed push - via raiding mines/etc) until level 48 to hit 100 Smithing." Which is not why people want Smithing nerfed. The reason people want Smithing nerfed is you DON'T have to power level it. The current way it works it's already set to power level since actually crafting stuff has an incredible and THE best ratio of use to skill improvement ratio AND is the only noncombat skill that by itself not only fixes any of the issues of leveling non combat skills but actually does the opposite and vastly IMPROVES your ability to still compete against enemies that your low combat skills would normally make an issue of. Stuff like the transmute mine is just an example of how the game world actually makes it even MORE ridiculously easy to do without even intentionally power leveling a single skill.

It's a single player game.

Terrible arguments. So if a helm with +999999999999 damage is sitting on the ground just outside your home in Whiterun, its fine just use self control yes? No it breaks immersion & likely was not intended.

*nods* the problems with Enchanting(to a lesser degree than Smithing) and Smithing is to me very similar to why so many Perks in FO3 being crappy is a problem. Both lead to One True Buildism? which ultimately is damaging to the marketing of a sandbox game. Enchantment at least has going for it that it's ONLY top heavy. Smithing is top bottom and middle heavy.

I wouldn;t mind seeing them adjust how much smithing gets raised based on the items you make. Not dramatically slow mind you, but something more in line with crafting higher quality gear for optimal skill lvl raise. with perhaps skill xp cut offs on certain gear as said before like Iron no longer adding after skill lvl 25 with it adding less and less starting from say 20, then steel adding less at a certain lvl and cutting off at a certain lvl and so on. Of course there is self imposed limitations you can place upon yourself as I have. Though in ending as much as I would like to see such a thing adjusted in the game who am I or any other player to decide what limitations others should have in an exclusively single player game?

Well, you'd better have self-control in that case, because damage enchantments aren't available for armor, and if it works the way it sounds like, you'd kill yourself instantly upon equipping it, like how you could enchant items in Oblivion to have damage on self when the items were equipped.

And I suppose you would say it also breaks immersion if you were able to find an Ebony bow or a Glass bow in a dungeon while only level 3 or 4, then?

I would also add that is all a discussion that doesn't even touch on the relative worthlessness of things like the Speech and Lockpicking tree. The uselessness of the mage elemental damage increase perks, the magicka cost reduction perks uselessness, the general overall weakness of Destruction just to touch on some of it. All of it contribute to the problems that Smithing/Enchanting headline.

To avoid the multi quoting I'll focus on one point.

If you are never meant to hit 100 blacksmithing because you should be playing casually why make that the requirement for Dragon armour? Something that I would assume a lot of people were looking forward to wearing once they find out about it.

Once you reach that point why wouldn't you use the best gear available to you? Sure, you can make it a challenge for yourself. Where do you stop? Is ebony too much? Is dwarven? Each time I win a fight too handily should I downgrade my gear? It should be expected that Bethesda tests things like that before they put out their product. There is no point whether you're level 16 or 60 in which having this gear doesn't break some of the fun factor, immersion, gameplay or whatever you want to call it by making encounters too easy.

Why is it too much for me to expect to be able to wear dragon armour without micro managing my character's gear?

This is a no for me.
I don't exploit it so it's leveling the way it should due to the amount is use it. I'm 25 and both of these skills are in the high thirties. I go out on a quest or wandering, stock up heavy/expensive vanilla weaponry, then either wait til I'm over encumbered or fast travel to a city to fine tune the weapons, enchant them and sell them for extra cash. Skills are fine, ppl need to stop ruining the game for themselves if they're abusing it

Just apply the self restraint 1.0 patch.
Then the enchanting and smithing are fine.

Yaknow what would happen if it was "nerfed" from the start?

You'd all complain about how you had to grind Smithing to get it anywhere useful.

I hope they balance crafting better.

Yes, it's a single-player game... and yes, I could always just ignore skills like Smithing entirely if I wanted to. That isn't really an answer though. I want to focus on Smithing with some characters, and should be able to focus on it as a main skill without becoming all-powerful in a matter of hours. :confused:

The self-control argument might work with things like console cheats, or hand-holding features like fast-travel... but it's a pretty lame defence for a poorly balanced skill.