Smithing and enchanting are not some god item just sitting at your feet tempting you, you have to actively go out of your way to level them up and all that to make them "broken", if you don't want to then DON'T: no one is harmed either way.

The only thing I agree with is lockpicking perks being a complete joke.

So what do you with a character that focuses on smithing as a main skill?
Mine, craft armor then sell it for hours?

I don't grasp the concept of "nerfing" something in a purely single player game.

Use it if you want, ignore it if you want, use it a little if you want.

Why MUST you force your view of balance down MY throat when this message board is the only place we will ever meet?

Enough with the "over powered" [censored], find something worthwhile to complain about...like actual bugs.

DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner.

/thead

Now lets get that magic resistance fixed so I can play....

I never said that? I even pointed out that the whole point is that eventually, you will reach maximum skill level, and that you can do so for every skill. And that's the whole point of progression, that you slowly grow from a weak, puny individual into a dragon-slaying badass of which the greatest of songs and odes are written, and every time you draw your weapon, somewhere someone busts out a metal solo and the horns are thrown high in the air.

You have the choice to use what you want. Just like you have the choice to use whatever skills you want. You don't have to use any of the skills that you don't want to. That's what this game and the whole series is about: Your choice. You can do whatever you want within the game's limitations that Bethesda set forth.

You don't have to get the highest level armor right away. You don't have to get the most powerful weapon right away. You don't even need to have the most powerful stuff to succeed well and have fun. Get off that old-school JRPG mentality where there's supposed to be an "ultimate" set of armor and weapons and an "ultimate" boss enemy outside of the story that provides the ultimate challenge.

There was a thread I want to find that's a perfect example of someone understanding this, some guy who wanted to play a character he'd called a "business lizard." His intention was to be an Argonian merchant type of character who didn't adventure, but instead traded and sold goods. He wasn't going to be about finishing quests and smithing uber gear, he was about finding things he could sell so as to build his own little merchant empire, and when he had to go to dungeons, he would hire mercenaries to do the fighting for him. That's perfectly a demonstration of the spirit of TES, the fact that nothing truly limited him from playing that kind of character, and he wouldn't be prevented because the balance scaling was so off that he was required to only use the best possible gear of the best possible quality.

You have the choice of what you want to do, nothing's limiting you from that but your own self. And yes, some choices have their consequences, like the choice of grinding Smithing early on in order to get access to smithing Dragon Armor by the time you're level 15 will mean that you've effectively negated the challenge of lower level enemies right off because you decided you had to have access to the top-tier gear. But that was your choice to make, while being smart enough at the same time to realize the consequences of your choice. You don't have to get that armor, but you can choose to, if you want.

Rule.Zero.Fallacy.

+1

Hilariously on point.

i wish people would quit crying about it more then hope bethesda fixes it.

Vague hypothetical post is vague and hypothetical. That actually wouldn't address any of the issues with skills currently. Neither did doewnskitty's post.

What stupid percentages? Just levelling up smithing off iron daggers? I'm fine with them tweaking that, and wouldn't call it a nerf.

My responses are to the crowd bemoaning the fact they can make themselves hideously overpowered weps/armour, and are complaining because they lack neither the self-control of discipline to not do so. I cheerfully stand by my fools comment for those people. One shot dragon kills are simply not doable without ABUSING the game mechanics.

Um they either need to Nerf enchanting or Alchemy or hurry up and get the stupid Construction Kit out so we can fix the game ourselves. I ruined one game maxing enchanting.....its kind of silly not to use it once you level it up.

All they need to do is put a reasonable cap on it, heck armor caps at 587 and that doesn't even make any sense since with crafting and armor perks all the armors can reach the cap excepting leather based armor.

So one area without caps that makes no sense because of the loops and another with a cap that waters down your choice in armor.

Of course I hope they change it the system just doesn't make any sense and doesn't enforce the primary concept of "making choices matter" that is an RPG's lifeblood.

Will they change it? That a whole seperate question and based on past performance alone there is no hope at all they will change it, Something would have to have changed at Bethesda for them to actually start doing any kind of balancing "fixes"

Should it be nerfed? I hate talking in terms of buffing or nerfing cause when you balance things you usually don't just balance one thing and a change in one place might require something else that taken by itself needs a nerf but in tandem might actually need no change or even a buff to achieve balance.

As the first reposnder to the post pointed out I truly hope they put in caps on items to increase skill and balance out skill gain with material usage and general difficulty of an item.

Don't forget pick pocketing I have yet to find a situation where this skill is truly needed

Enchanting really isn't all that bad. It's biggest problem is that it's a bit top heavy because of the relative worthlessness of most soul gems to make items. Other than that it's issue is it's part in the Alchemy/Smithing/Enchanting circle of doom! Which has a fairly easy fix. Compared to Smithing it's practically balanced. It also plays a part in mage issues but that's brought about because of the issues with magicka and spells, not really because of enchanting.

No, no, let's not draw the line here, enchanting ruined his game; clearly it must also be nerfed.

Only if they make the only available enchantment be, "All Arrows hit enemies in the knees."

...what issues?

Edit: On second thought, I think I'm finished. I've just realized it's now past midnight when I thought it was still 10:30, and I am done for my day. This thread is nearing the 200 post limit as it is, and I've put in enough of my thoughts to suffice. Besides that, it's rather a circular argument that still comes down to choice and how the game is played by the individual.

I'm going to crawl into my warm bed before I end up falling asleep on the floor because I didn't get there quickly enough.

Cheers.

Abusing shouldn't come so easily.... it shouldn't come so READILY available....

If such is the case then Bethesda needs to set in variables so we don't run through everything with OP Gear. They need to nerf percentage multipliers if anything. That to me is the first step necessary before moving forward.

I can only assume you are trolling since people in this thread and elsewhere have expounded quite a bit on the issues.



I would also add it becomes highlighted even more when you contrast it to those Skills in the game that are vastly weaker AND harder to level.

They don't need to be nerfed, people on here just need to figure out that if they don't like optional things they simply don't have to do it. :wink_smile:

I think the sorry state of magic in the game is more of a broken thing than this, which you don't have to do.

No, I was originally asking you to elaborate for your part what you meant by what issues needed addressing.

I'm not going to assume anything you don't tell me, but good job on assuming that about me in spite of my participation in this thread.

So much for civility, you have yourself a fine evening.

If you're talking about smithing 468 iron daggers to get to 100 smithing, I agree with you. It should be as alchemy is, based on the dollar value of the item smithed.



The rest of the abuses are really abusing the game mechanics, and can't be done by accident. No one owns a 300+ dam bow or sword unless they specifically set out to do so, in which case the problem lies within the player, and not the game. Especially if the player decides the weapon is too powerful but then keeps using it.

I have no problem with someone making roflstomp weapons just to go on a rampage through giant camps or some such, however. Lord knows, I enjoy it myself.

Frankly, I'd be interested in seeing how many of the min-maxing complainers aren't using daedric or dragon weps/armour, crafted up to and even beyond legendary status....

People really need to calm down and remember that in previous Elder Scrolls games, it was possible to make a character that was literally invincible, without skill stacking.


Really, compared to TES 3 and 4, Skyrim is surprisingly balanced, with the only issue being a circular synergy bonus between the three crafting skills. And really, all that does is give you exceptionally high damage output.

Because if the game stays as it is, you can easily custom tailor the experience any way you want it. It is your choice to create items of a certain magnitude once you have the ability to. It is your choice that you must use the most high end armor you possibly can, not the armor that adheres to your role-playing style. It is your choice to abuse every aspect of the game possible as has always been in The Elder Scrolls games. It is entirely your choice to play as a demi-god or to play as a peasant ala Dark Souls where any one thing could possess the capability to kill you, even the lowly skeever.

Those who want the game to stay as is (especially regarding alchemy/smithing) understand that you have the ability to cater the game difficulty to your personal playstyle. It gives you an even higher degree of control than the difficulty slider does by itself.

What you suggest is going to create a scenario where I cannot play as a meagerly armored monk, a leather wearing assassin, or anything that does not use the highest armor rating gear available because my game will be far too difficult if I decide to do anything else. As it stands, the smithing/alchemy/enchanting benefits I gain allow me to more actively immerse myself both visually and playstyle wise.

You are trying to fundamentally alter the basis for all Elder Scrolls games. You have the option to become a Demi-god. You have the option to play as a peasant. If you remove this aspect of the game, you actively remove a large amount of choice for those more interested in certain immersive elements.



How you fail to understand the concept of choice in this matter is completely and utterly beyond those of us who have any measure of self control.