I'd hope not. That's why I stopped playing MMORPGs - I got so tired of classes fundamentally changing. I would hope when my character is a master enchanter he can enchant some disgustingly powerful items. Not everything has to be balanced - that's not fun.

If you sprint enchanting/smithing, then go on a wiki to look up where to find ore, yeah you're going to be OP. I have no sympathy.

If you find ore through exploration, you'll be scrounging vendors for ingots just to make your weapons.

Just play Blacksmith OR Enchanter, it's a gameplay choice for bethesda to make them viable INDIVIDUALLY. They don't balance around maxers, thank god.

Huh, I can see the Smithing thing (finally got to 100 myself) but enchanting? I make pitiful enchantments still ...

So if everyone plays exactly like you it is ok, but if people try to raise their crafting up - that is somehow exploiting, abusing the system, or playing the game incorrectly? The problem is that players must go out of their way to avoid creating items that outmatch your enemies greatly. This is without cheating or looping alchemy pots. Just standard stuff in the game. Crafting Iron Daggers to level your skill is not "abusing the system" it is common sense. That however isn't really my complaint. My complaint is the fact that the difficulty in this game is a joke and players seeking any sort of challenge must create arbitrary rulesets to play with when the game should have a slider giving the player the ability to control the scaling of enemies, so that if you want a greater challenge, you can up the level off-set of enemies (for example enemies that scale with your level could scale to be 10 levels higher than you always if you chose - or less if you get stuck). That is a completely legitimate gripe. The "Master/Adept" difficulty settings do not seem to do a whole lot. It is kind of like how in some games a hardcoe mode adds "food consumption" to the equation instead of increasing the amount of mobs, their stats (and possibly AI), the arsenal of spells/skills they use, etc. I really am not quite sure if you guys are getting what is wrong with the game and how the implementation of a system like this will do absolutely nothing to limit your gameplay, only give you more options...

There is such a thing as balance in a single-player game. You balance the skills against the environment so that skills are satisfyingly effective and so that skill advancement is satisfyingly rewarding.

Yes. This is exactly what I am hoping for. CAPS.

They should nerf the [censored] out of the multipliers lol. The way multipliers are now with the looping and so forth, its kind of ridiculous to be honest. A flat 20% tops for enchanting might do it for example. Maybe lower...

How the bells do you expect them to RE-BALANCE a single player game? This is not World of Warcraft... If you do not like a certain play style, do not use it. They have already officially stated that this is the way they wanted the game to be. For a while I was struggling on Master difficulty with my Assassin fighting Dragons and Dragon Priests. The only thing that saved me was my unspent perk points and mastery of Alchemy, Smith and Enchanting.

Would someone explain how, exactly, is a consistent and balanced gameplay experience "an MMO thing, and MMO thing only". Since when did singleplayer games stop attempting to offer a balanced experience the player does not need to try and control from outside of the game with and by out-of-game efforts and metagaming?

If it was the case that there need not be any balance in an SP game, there'd be no need to let the character die (unless the player chooses to), have any skills (the player can choose to do or not to do the activities), or difficulty (the player can choose not to do anything when being hit, and choose to die when he pleases), and so on and so forth. The MMO argument and SP games needing no balance is just out of place (or plain ignorance from those who believe in it).

And it's still about an exploit that you have to go out of your way to even be able to utilize in the first place.

It's not something you experience in normal gameplay as it is, unless you choose to play that way.

This thread and so much of the rationale exhibited within it, and the many, many similar ones like it, is utterly ridiculous.

Munchkins, complaining about their own munchkinism.

Balance does exist in a game like this, just in a different sense than in an MMO like WoW.

If no skills were balanced against each other, there would be no point to having different skills. Everyone would just play the most powerful option because the others wouldn't be viable. The options you are given to play a different build of character would be completely undermined if only one build actually worked.

Without looping alchemy pots to bolster your crafting skills, just by sheerly using Smithing and Enchanting and the pots already existing in game or any combination thereof, the game difficulty is too easy for most players. Players just want an option to be able to have more control over game difficulty rather than choosing to NOT taking up Smithing, Enchanting, and or Alchemy. I should be able to play how I want to play and I should be able to power level a skill with the option of it not trivializing content.

This does not limit your ability to enjoy being able to do so.
It just gives the many players who think the game is too easy in any form a method to increase the difficulty.

The way I can explain the system is like if you were to take a test and the answers to the test were written next to every single question. To expect you not to "cheat" in some form is ridiculous since you are more or less being pushed to do so.

Amen, Amen! Sad when you go to enchant for the first, oh, I dunno, 20-30 levels, and you end up selling everything because it svcks. Smithcrafting is at least way more useful to a low-level character.

Maybe we could make it more like cooking - oh wait, the FOOD tab is OP, considering you can eat a smorgasbord in the middle of combat.

Well, i know one thing the petty soul gems are useful for; i use them for 1 sec soul trap enchantments on my weapons :celebration:

Alchemy in Oblivion didn't make your character lvl 20 times in one setting. Smithing is obviously broken. And the argument "well you shouldn't overuse it," is a terrible one. People are supposed to play a game for what it is as best as they can still being challenged, especially on harder difficulties. If I'm bored being overpowered on master difficulty (which I am) and everyone's best argument is don't use high lvl gear... Something's beyond wrong. Haven't played a game this easy in a while. The fact that it's from what was one of my favorite companies is irritating.

This isn't a mutiplayer game, so why does it bother you if a fellow player exploits anything? I am level 100 on smithing and it does nothing for me other than allow me to use those ignots. In Daedric armour I still get destroyed by the fists of a troll in 2 hits on MASTER. I'm level 38.

I share such frustrations. I really hope Bethesda makes it right in this patch without having to GIMP myself. Wearing the best possible gear with the best possible challenge is the perfect sweet spot.

Wrong.

Take a car, it is not because it can go at 200+ KPH that you are allowed to, and even if allowed to, still does not make it safer for you.
Or a DVDR, you can legaly buy it, fill it with anything you want, even use it to store things you shouldn't.

In an open game like TESs just like in real world freedom has a price, you can't overuse it because doing so has consequences : if you choose to powerplay smithing/alchemy/enchanting/whatever and in the end it ruins your gameplay this is your fault, deal with the consequences of your choice.

So, don't overuse it, control or police yourself instead of trying to enforce limitations on others.

Only thing I hope they nerf is how long it takes to get to 100 in enchanting... I've been at it for TWO WHOLE DAYS I'm lvl 89 enchanting....

I should be able to eat as many cupcakes as I want, why should I limit myself? That's just stupid. If there isn't anyone to stop me from eating as many cupcakes as I want, then why should I make myself stop eating all the cupcakes in the world?

They're not overpowered unless you choose to abuse them. I've been role-playing on Master with no smithing enchanting or alchemy and I'm finding it really fun. Now that I am higher level I do nasty damage and also get killed in 1-2 hits usually. So it's a very nice realistic balance. I might add alchemy for role-play puroses though. I just use any armor I find that's light.

this, i've been using smithing on my latest character and it seems just fine
I don't go around grinding out a 100 iron daggers for no reason other than leveling up though
improved pretty much everything I use and smithing seems to level up just fine with the rest of my skills

please don't nerf it requiring me to grind out a 100 iron daggers for it to be useful

because some people don't like cupcakes
don't force them into having to binge cupcakes to keep up

I wish WoW players would stick to their game and not try to ruin Skyrim via nerfs. Blizzard is more than happy to completely change every class every 6 months for those who cry for it.

If they cut this system they might risk something like the 0% magic resistance bug. Anyways you have the option to power up your enchanting and smithing to extremely powerful levels. You do not have to do this, they are giving you the option to be as powered as you wish.

This is what happened to spell creation, a lot of people made super powered spells, then complained about their choice to make those spells and cried afoul that the system was overpwered and unbalanced. Now look at what we have a spell system a shell of its former self.

These games are all about choice, thats how I feel any Elder Scrolls title should be and you should not be limited in your options. You should go as far or as little as you want. I know I do, depending on my characters roleplaying style.