[RELz] Appler's Passive Birthsigns

Post » Wed May 11, 2011 2:36 pm

snip


I forgot to mention: There is some strange bug in the engine that I (think) is unfixable. When you select the Serpent and you have a healing spell set already, you can cast it. For some reason, it only starts to recognize your selected spell once you change it. I just tried it out and the script works fine, you just have to change spells at least once for it to start recognizing your active spell.
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Trent Theriot
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 10:33 am

Bump :P
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Angela Woods
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 1:07 pm

I've started to add in-depth descriptions of how the scripts work, but I gotta go now :P I'll add more later!
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Kayla Bee
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 2:40 am

I really like this idea. I hate Greater and Lesser Powers because I never think to use them. That's why LAME's plugin that changes all the stones to be permanent effect enchantments saved my life. Your ideas are also really unique. The definitive Birthsign mod for those sick and tired of Fortify effects and powers? Perhaps. I've got a few suggestions though. Keep in mind that if any of what follows destroys your vision for the mod, ignore it. I don't want to try to rewrite your own idea.

Apprentice:
Unless a character is very specialized, I think a 10-spell limit is too strict. My character generally has one regular Target Destruction spell, a Target Area spell, a Touch spell, sometimes a Touch Area spell too, at least one Restore Health spell but usually two in case I'm running low on magicka, a Restore Fatigue spell (absolutely necessary with Realistic Fatigue), a Light spell, at least one but usually two or three Summon spells, a Feather spell, a Shield spell, an Absorb Health spell, a Cure Disease spell, sometimes a Restore X Attribute spell, an Invisibility spell, maybe a Frenzy or Command spell (LAME adds several fun ones), one or more of the Gather Ye Rosebuds spells, a Damage or Absorb Magicka spell if I get my hands on a Spellfire spell from SM, and probably a few more I'm forgetting. That's in the order of 15-20 spells not including the option of having different elements for my Destruction spells, Fortify spells, or assorted spells that could come in handy. I would have a pretty hard time cutting it down to 10 at a time. I understand that's the point, but it makes the sign a definite no-go for me. Even a bump to 12 would be more balanced I think.

Also, a 2-point bonus to five skills isn't that impressive, especially when the player will have to focus on only a few of them to stay under the spell limit. And are you forgetting/not including Illusion? Maybe replace this with something, like a constant magicka regen bonus or boosted Willpower.

The Atronach:
Compared to the Speed and Shield effects of the other two, Fire's Reflect Damage is too powerful. Like Shield, Reflect Damage will reduce damage taken, but unlike Shield is not limited to 85% and deals the damage BACK to the enemy. Reduce it to 5% maybe.

Because summons can last forty seconds and cost only around 50 magicka to cast, nearly 1% gain (per second or per tenth of a second?) seems overpowered. That's not counting any summons the enemy might have. And mods like SM or LAME (I think LAME?) allow the player to summon multiple creatures. If this stacks that would be scary. Not sure what to do otherwise though. Love how you got rid of the silly Spell Absorption and jump-in-front-of-fireballs tactic though.

The Lady:
Heh, I was almost going to suggest this as a Lesser Power, but then I recalled how I loathe Lesser Powers. How about as a part of Peaceful Reproach, enemies stop being aggressive towards the Lady? So basically you can walk into a den of bandits and not get a hair out of place until you start causing mayhem with your fists/spells. Would be interesting for roleplaying purposes, and not really unbalancing because it gives very little end-game advantage.

By Cure Disease do you mean 100% Resistance or a power? I don't like powers, remind you.

The Lord
Any way to leave it up to the player regarding how long the transition is? 20 hours isn't a lot for players who, like me, make characters that last hundreds of hours. For me, 200 hours would be appealing, but I know that if someone's making a character that'll only do, say, the Fighters Guild and then quits (as in specified, rather than my do-everything playstyle) a lifetime lasting 200 hours would be entirely unnecessary and there'd be next to no effect from the birthsign.

LOVE the idea though. Can't wait to see what you do with it in later versions.

The Lover
This one seems nice and balanced. Not as unique as the others so far, but that's fine. I came up with the Lady suggestion before reading this, but I won't remove it because I think it or something similar can still apply.

The Mage
I like this one! Crippling like the Apprentice but in a different way. The benefits are really useful too, much more unique than a simple Fortify effect. Would be absolutely painful with nGCD, RBP, and Realistic Fatigue like my game, because even without that Drain Strength I started at only 20. Took pretty much forever to get anywhere because I could barely run with Leather on. But hey, that's the price a mage has got to pay as a nuker. No suggestions for this one.

The Ritual
That 2 minute bonus is real-time, right? I sure hope so. Good ideas here, I really like the rapture idea. The Sleep bonus seems too short-lived, but since the Sign as no real weakness, it's okay.

The Serpent
Needs a weakness. The benefits aren't as situational as The Ritual. They're very much controllable by the player. Like the Mage got crippled, the Serpent needs a blow to the kneecap too. Weakness to Frost would go well with the snake motif. Or something to do with their performance outside of sneaking, like a hit to damage when not going for stealth kills (i.e., hit to damage all the time but bonus while sneaking).

The Shadow
This is cool. Great sign for those who don't like reloading. No easier than usual thanks to the weaknesses, just less annoying reloading. Seems balanced enough.

The Steed
I don't know about the Alchemy thing. Makes the perks pointless except for Master. I say drop it to three. Two isn't very impressive since Alchemy is so damn easy to level up, but four is Expert level minus the magnitude improvements.

The Thief
Small suggestion. Make the Vault cost 50% fatigue. Fatigue is easy to come by in vanilla, but 50% would really hurt Thief users with Realistic Fatigue or similar.

The Tower
I always thought the vanilla Tower was stupid. This is great. I think it might need a small weakness of some time, but I don't know what. A general drain of Speed? A big drain of Speed while blocking?

The Warrior
Sounds like WoW :D

Fleeing enemies aren't always a good thing, especially for a Warrior without a bow or spells. Not sure if you meant it as a perk or weakness. I guess it works both ways depending on the player. That's probably the best kind of weakness of all, one out of the player's control.
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Tanya
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 4:37 pm

Sorry, just realised that I had only got v.17 of OBSE installed. Upgraded to V.18b6 and it is now fine with the restoration nerf. However, I am really not convinced the sneaking bonus works. If anything, it seems to have made it nigh on impossible to sneak. Could you make sure it is working as intended?
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kelly thomson
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 9:03 am

I'm at work (again, lol) so Frodo, I'll respond to your GREAT feedback when I'm in front of a computer.

Niall, I'd encourage you to take a look at the cswiki and read up on the chages the Serpent makes. You'll find it does make a considerable impact. However, it has been noted in the OP that the Serpent may need to be improved upon. I appreciate your feedback, and I'll look into it, but it certainly doesn't make it harder to sneak.
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 1:46 am

I think compared to some, the apprentice is too nerfed. 15-25 would be a better range. Maybe make it leveled ?
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Breautiful
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 3:58 pm

Looks really interesting, will try it out. Thanks!
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 3:36 pm

Frodo: thanks for the detailed feedback :) I understand criticism isn't like saying "change this, NOW!" and I appreciate all criticism, even if it's "this birthsign svcks." I'll respond to each of your comments in the same way you posted them:

Apprentice:
I want the spell limit to be very strict, to force the player to re-think the usefulness of all of their spells. However, given the new information on 'Heal Minor Wounds' and several comments, the limit will be bumped up and perhaps leveled as Eldude suggested.

Also, I'm just now realizing how horrible the perks are. I think I was too excited about getting the menu-system working (which is now broken) that I failed to see how bad the sign really was. I'll be fixing this.

The Atronach:
I'll admit, I don't actually play OB very much, so I don't know how powerful Reflect Damage is. I wasn't aware it reduced damage (although now it makes sense, since Reflect Spell doesn't allow any harm to the player). 5 is a good suggestion.

As for the magicka regen, the summons give you 1% per .1 sec, so 10% per sec and it does stack. But have you actually playtested this? I've tested it a lot, and it's not as powerful as it sounds. And you have to realize, 150 units is a very small radius. The summon basically has to be on top of you. Let's not forget, too much regen will cause you to Overload, which I'm also planning to make more painful for the player.

The Lady:
I'm going to keep the Lady as it is right now. Of course, there has been a lot of discussion about this one being slightly underpowered, so I do plan on improving it slightly. The Cure Disease is the 'Cure Disease' effect, used as an ability. Now that I think of it, is that one of the effects that don't work as abilities? If so, I'll change it to resistance.

The Lord
I really wasn't sure how long to make this effect last. Personally, I can't get to level 15 before I get an idea for another character and delete the current one. I'll consider some options for the time span, but I'm more focused on illustrating the anti-aging process in detail.

The Lover
Thanks :) I'm trying to make some 'basic' signs (which is what I was going for with Apprentice), and this one is pretty good.

The Mage
Thanks again :) Yeah, I was very happy with how this turned out. It's really fun buying a spell from a merchant, then opening your spellbook to find the spell has gotten much better in half a second ;)

The Ritual
Yes, 2 minutes real-time. I think the bonus duration is slightly irrelevant, as it will come in handy most while cave-crashing, and the fortify health, etc. will soon be whittled away by enemies anyhow. Although, you can regain the fortified health by Rapturing dead creatures...

The Serpent
True, it doesn't have a weakness, but I'm unsure if the perks are even good enough as it is right now. I need to test this some more, maybe make the Slither ability stronger, then add a nerf.

The Shadow
Yeah this one is pretty fun to use. :thumbsup:

The Steed
I really want to make a sign that improves Alchemy, and this was what I came up with at the time. After all, the major perk of the sign comes from the horse/player relationship (which is being improved), and the Alchemy thing is just a small side-bonus. I may look into some game settings for Alchemy, though.

The Thief
Well, I don't want to make it so the ability isn't usable quite often. I'd like players to be able to jump across rooftops a few times in succession.

The Tower
Yeah, this sign is actually quite powerful... It really does need some kind of nerf. The Tower was really stupid in vanilla, wasn't it :P

The Warrior
I meant the fleeing as a perk, but I see what you're saying as well. I guess it turned out to be a cool perk/weakness. Just FYI (in case you played the Warrior and were slightly disappointed with Rampage), I've already made great improvements to Rampage for the next release.
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Nicole Mark
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 2:57 am

I came up with a pretty cool fix for the Apprentice as well as some visual effects for the Atronach close to overloading. Might be ready for an update by tomorrow!
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Danii Brown
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 12:50 pm

First of all: Very impressive work!!
I really like your idea on birthsigns, they're very unique and well-thought. Much better then the current system.
I haven't tried them yet, mainly due to some unanswered questions the first time I came to check this thread, although they've been answered by now. :)

Now I hope you don't mind I share my opinion about some of the birthsigns with you, even though I haven't tested them yet myself?
I have no experience with scripting, so these ideas may be not even possible.

The Apprentice
:
As said before, the spell limit seems very harsh, yet reasonable, some ideas may be:
The amount of spells is based on the players Intelligence (Let's say, a standard "5 + Intelligence/X" , where X is a divider for you to choose, depending on how many spells you want the player to memorize.) It seems more natural that the player is capable of memorizing more spells by practice.

Maybe this drawback can be accompanied by a boost to Spell Scrolls (or am I the only one who barely uses them?).

Another idea is a new scripted item named the "Spell Book". The player would be able to store spells in this book to bypass the limit. Spells cannot be directly cast from this book, and cannot be retrieved while engaged in combat (or even some other situations). While retrieving a spell, the player should be busy studying, and cannot do much else in that time. Not sure how to work this out though. Either the "Wait Timer" activates, or the player is forced to sit on a chair for an ingame hour.
Edit: to clarify, the Spell Book can only store a few amount of skills.
The Atronach:
Simple - Love it! I was worried about the magicka degeneration at first, but then I read how one can restore ones own magicka by summoning creatures. Nice idea!
The Lord:
Very original, although as noted the duration of 20 hours is a bit low. Perhaps make it level based?
Generally, the character is more healthy/powerful from the beginning and grows weaker as they approach infancy.

Perhaps make it a "parabole" effect: start as a rather weak old man, grow stronger and reach a peak at which point you grow weaker again.
The Lover:
Is it possible to directly affect the disposition of NPC's? If so, this birthsign could perhaps increase the disposition of NPC's (of opposite gender), instead of the simple fortify effects?

The Mage:
I'm not too fond of the simple "Drain" disadvantages of the mage. I've no idea about scripting, nor know it's capabilities, so I'll just post my thoughts and let you decide:
Perhaps it's possible to lower the maximum rank of certain attributes/skills. For example:
- Max Strength and Endurance is 50, and he can never get better then "Expert" for the 7 combat related skills.
- Also, I've never seen a bearded old man run from IC to Chorrol, so maybe a drastic hit on running, perhaps even completely disabling it. Or a lower fatigue cap/regenaration.
I could offcourse be overexagerating, and these could be too intense, but it's just a basic idea.
The Ritual:
I'm personally not too fond on "Healing Slumber" and doubt it's true effectiveness. 2 minutes is the time it takes me to get from my bed to the exit of the Inn I was staying at. :P
Can this effect be gained through other means?
The Steed:
As noted already, the alchemy bonus. Perhaps the alchemy bonus could only take effect when your horse is close to you?
I'm also unsure how this Soul Link works. You increase the damage of a horse only while riding it? Because I didn't think horses can attack while mounted. Just needs a bit of clarification.
The Thief:
Does "Thieve's Fortune" also check the inventory of NPC's while pickpocketing?
The Tower:
Seems to me like a very powerful, if not a bit overpowered birthsign. A hit too speed from Aegis Shield seems in place here.
The Warrior:
About the Rampage thing, is it the same for all weapons? Will one get the same amount of rampage rapidly attacking with a dagger as slowly swinging a 4 ton hammer at enemies? :P

Now most of this may be simple nonsense, I let that up for you to decide and others to discuss, I just thought I'd share my view with you. Most of these ideas are my own personal taste and I understand if you don't agree at all. :)

Other than that, I'm downloading this mod right now, because it looks simply amazing. Do you have any plans to make a mod along these lines but for race bonusses?

Excellent job, and keep up the great work!
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Shannon Marie Jones
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 1:24 pm

Thanks for your feedback Revan! :thumbsup: Now, some responses:

The Apprentice:
The leveled spell cap is under consideration. As for now, I've fixed this birthsign greatly (not released yet) and I'm going to stick with what I've got right now. The spell cap has been increased, however.
Interesting idea with the spellbook, but that still allows the player access to an infinite number of spells, which is the complete opposite of what I'm trying to achieve.

The Atronach:
:) It has been improved (visuals, more balance) for the next version.

The Lord:
If you go back to the OP, the fatigue regen section forms a parabolic result (without using a parabolic function, I probably couldn't come up with one on my own lol). I'm going to carry this over with health as well, although I feel magicka should still have a direct relationship with age. And yes, many more things are planned.

The Lover:
Did you read this correctly? That is exactly what it does, although for all NPCs not just opposite six.

The Mage:
I like the run speed reduction, I may think about adding it. For now, I'm happy with the drains.

The Ritual:
It's strange how many people fail to realize you can sleep anywhere (that has a bed) so long as you aren't near hostile creatures/NPCs. With all the bedrolls in caves, and the portable bed mods out there, it should be plenty useful.

The Steed:
It's funny you should mention to damage bonus. I think when I was making this birthsign I was planning to keep the horse buffs active even when the player is dismounted, only for the horse that the player designated as his "favorite." As it turns out, the bonus only affects the horse while mounted, and that effect didn't get removed. I should probably fix that.

The Thief:
It does not check NPCs while pickpocketing. Could be a fun idea, though. I've never actually pickpocketed anyone in Oblivion :P

The Tower:
Well, Aegis Shield is active while crouching+blocking, which already slows the player down to a screeching halt. I'm considering nerfs for this sign.

The Warrior:
It is the same for all weapons. I think if you're wildly hacking with a sword 3 times within 6 seconds, or swinging once with a bone-crushing hammer in 6 seconds, the character will still feel the same sense of 'rampage' from both actions.

I appreciate all the posts, guys! I'll keep working at this! (I know it needs it :P )
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Lizbeth Ruiz
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 10:00 am

version 0.92 is out! Large fix to Apprentice, Rampage improved, Atronach visuals added, and small changes.
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Chloe Mayo
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 9:10 am

The Apprentice:
The leveled spell cap is under consideration. As for now, I've fixed this birthsign greatly (not released yet) and I'm going to stick with what I've got right now. The spell cap has been increased, however.
Interesting idea with the spellbook, but that still allows the player access to an infinite number of spells, which is the complete opposite of what I'm trying to achieve.

Well I did mention the Spell Book can only hold a select amount of spells, though I added that in a quick edit. Not sure how hard it would be to script such a thing.
Also, it was not my intention to add all of these buffs/changes to the birthsign, rather just one: either Spellbook, leveled spell cap or Spell Scroll bonus.

The Lord:
If you go back to the OP, the fatigue regen section forms a parabolic result (without using a parabolic function, I probably couldn't come up with one on my own lol). I'm going to carry this over with health as well, although I feel magicka should still have a direct relationship with age. And yes, many more things are planned.

I seemed to have missed the parabolic results part, my bad! :P So scrap this comment.

The Lover:
Did you read this correctly? That is exactly what it does, although for all NPCs not just opposite six.

Again, my bad, it was a lot too read afterall. :P So scrap this, glad you have it like that.

The Mage:
I like the run speed reduction, I may think about adding it. For now, I'm happy with the drains.

Yeah I understand This mod is a lot of work, suggestions are mainly meant for future consideration. ;)

The Ritual:
It's strange how many people fail to realize you can sleep anywhere (that has a bed) so long as you aren't near hostile creatures/NPCs. With all the bedrolls in caves, and the portable bed mods out there, it should be plenty useful.

Loving to play as immersive as possible myself, I try not to sleep halfway through a dungeon when there could be more enemies on other floors in the dungeon who - in reality - could walk between levels! So this was more from an immersive point of view.

The Steed:
It's funny you should mention to damage bonus. I think when I was making this birthsign I was planning to keep the horse buffs active even when the player is dismounted, only for the horse that the player designated as his "favorite." As it turns out, the bonus only affects the horse while mounted, and that effect didn't get removed. I should probably fix that.

It seems this is one birthsign we can both agree on? ;)

The Thief:
It does not check NPCs while pickpocketing. Could be a fun idea, though. I've never actually pickpocketed anyone in Oblivion :P

Neither did I, but the chance to find more gold in purses - as unrealistic as it may seem - makes it a lot more attractive to do pickpocket them. ;)

The Tower:
Well, Aegis Shield is active while crouching+blocking, which already slows the player down to a screeching halt. I'm considering nerfs for this sign.

True, but then the player lowers his shield/stands up and there's nothing left of this screeching halt, and the buffs can be easily gained in a second by one mouse click (RMB is blocking for me).

The Warrior:
It is the same for all weapons. I think if you're wildly hacking with a sword 3 times within 6 seconds, or swinging once with a bone-crushing hammer in 6 seconds, the character will still feel the same sense of 'rampage' from both actions.

Opens up a bit of an exploit, doesn't it? Not that I'd use it. Swinging your dagger (one you probably can't handle at your level 5 blade skill) only to switch to your well-trained hammer when you get into rampage for the massive boosts. I haven't wielded either a dagger or hammer in real life, so not sure about the rampage feeling. But I get your point. ^^

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
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Pat RiMsey
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 6:53 am

Wow, as others have said, this really sounds like a lot of fun. Even though with RBP and LAME the major powers really give me an edge when battling some strong enemies, these would be cool changes to try out.

Just curious, do you intend to do something with the powers awarded by rune stones as well?

The Steed
I really want to make a sign that improves Alchemy, and this was what I came up with at the time. After all, the major perk of the sign comes from the horse/player relationship (which is being improved), and the Alchemy thing is just a small side-bonus. I may look into some game settings for Alchemy, though.


I don't like this "revealing all 4 effects" thing. It will make leveling your alchemy feel pointless, even if the potions are getting better. Maybe have the horse act as a mobile alchemy harvester, a kind of walking permanent "Gather Ye Rosebuds" spell? A bit weird to justify from a realism point of view, but it would sure help your alchemy by providing you with a lot of ingredients to experiment with, for minimal effort.
The ingredients would preferably end up in a kind of saddle bag, or even better, in Tekuromoto's DS Portable Sorters.

Edit: Well, and an obvious additional power for the Steed would be a Summon my horse power. And maybe also, to symbolize the link, have the horse change appearance/powers according to your character's path: stealth/magic/fighter/acrobatics, fame/infamy, and so on.

Just some ideas :) .
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IM NOT EASY
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 7:50 am

Yay more comments :) at work again... can't wait to get home and mod... lol. It's a drug.

Anyone out there have feedback that actually used this mod?
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Auguste Bartholdi
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 6:34 am

Released version 0.93! See changelog.

And in case you're wondering.. yeah, I update a lot. I'd rather update often than hold back fixes until a larger release. After all, they're optional! If you want to wait til 1.0, go ahead!
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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 8:05 pm

You may notice there isn't a readme included with the mod. I'm kinda in the middle of moving data around.. when I get home from work I'll make a detailed readme with all the juicy bits and leave the short descriptions for the thread.
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Cayal
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 8:03 pm

v0.94 released! Hopefully these constant updates aren't annoying.

Still To-Do:
* Modify Thief's Flight of the Magpie to automatically update itself (like Rampage does)
* Add specializations to the Apprentice's Research according to which skill the player chooses
* Serpent might ~still~ require improvement, not sure
* Additional perk for Steed, Alchemy related
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Kaley X
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Just wanted to add my encouragement. :)

There's a lot to like about this approach to birthsigns.
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Leilene Nessel
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 8:19 pm

Yeesh... Way too many overt changes for me, classes like the warrior and the lady pretty much force a gameplay style onto the player. No es bueno.

But if some people like that, cool. =/
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Naomi Lastname
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 7:23 pm

I like everything very much, just wish you can add a poison perk to the Serpeant
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Shirley BEltran
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 1:09 pm

classes like the warrior and the lady pretty much force a gameplay style onto the player. No es bueno.


I can see what you're saying with the Lady, but the Warrior doesn't really force a gameplay style.

I like everything very much, just wish you can add a poison perk to the Serpeant


Yeah, as I noted, the Serpent doesn't feel complete yet. I'll likely add another stealth-type perk and another nerf.
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Avril Louise
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 2:54 pm

Yeesh... Way too many overt changes for me, classes like the warrior and the lady pretty much force a gameplay style onto the player. No es bueno.

But if some people like that, cool. =/

I like it.

EDIT: That was an understatement, I cannot play without it.
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Wed May 11, 2011 7:52 am

Yeesh... Way too many overt changes for me, classes like the warrior and the lady pretty much force a gameplay style onto the player. No es bueno.

But if some people like that, cool. =/


I kinda agree. I love the idea, but it's just not the way I'd like. I dunno. The author's idea is very creative though. Perhaps I'll see if I can't download this and change things more to my tastes...
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Cccurly
 
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