Sure they are, when they're drained or damaged.

What you're actually increasing is the maximum value, as well as any more subtle effects the attribute might have like increased magicka regen. That has always been the case.

You'll still get skill bonuses, and with the way skills and level increases work in skyrim, it's a much bigger benefit than in OB. In OB the skill boosts were great early game, good mid, and useless late. Now skill bonuses will ALWAYS be good.

Anyone believe that perhaps there would be some Perks associated with your chosen race? I read somewhere that races still had their bonuses, but I assumed that meant their bonuses to certain skills. With the new leveling system, if I read it right, it might balance out eventually regardless of what race you chose, however if you choose an Orc and wanted to practice Alteration vs. an Altmer, you could catch up. So you could play that Orc Mage and eventually catch up and then you'd have your cake and eat it too.

Sorry if that was a bit off topic, but I'm just saying that races that had bonuses in a combat skill doesn't make it the de-facto best race for that skill because how the leveling system works. Now, I mourn the loss of Attributes as much as some others, but this would be a great oppotunity for a simple, yet logcial system to emerge. With perks, we will have something that covers what those attributes did and then some, and with 280 perks, I'm sure every playthrough will be as exciting as the others. And then, with those perks you'd be able to specialize in combat.

Sorry if this seems out of tune or poorly typed, very tired and about to go to sleep.

Your argument collapses when you start talking about blunt weapons. I think you are confusing attributes with SKILLS.

And you could always be ANYTHING with ANY race in TES. Removing attributes doesnt make it any different in that respect.

Orcs and redgaurds racial activated abilities gave mega stat boosts.

I don't think there will be any significant differences between the races beyond aesthetics and few subtle racial bonuses. I mean, Beth already removed classes in order release the player from the burden of making "big choices" in the beginning, so why would they make races to offer them either?

Now racial abilities boost something else...dont you think?

The Redguard ability boosted Health, Strength, and Speed, right? So it could still boost Health and run speed, and now raise every weapon skill by X levels (accommodating for strength and speed adding to weapon damage). It's not hard to think of a workaround, and if we can think of them, you know Bethesda can too. Can't wait to play as a Redguard in Skyrim!

I'd have to agree. Unless Bethesda came out and said the core attributes were still there and they in some part affect your skills as you progress, but we can't increase them then I would say all races are the same now.

Seems like no real advantage to pit my Redguard against a Wood Elf in a melee fight now, I might as well choose a wood elf and swing a sword around until he becomes the strongest warrior. Go figure.

How does the removal of attribute equate that all races are the same? What is to stop them from giving the Redguard a starting +X% to melee damage. Or Wood elves from a +X% damage to bows. Or natural armor to Orc. Or extra damage to destruction for High elves. Or faster move speeds for Khajiit. The argonians will still be able to breath underwater and be resistant to disease and poison (likely). I could think of many possibilities they could use with perks, skill bonuses, or abilities (water breathing) to differentiate all of the races.

Nothing is stopping them except the impression I am getting that they want everyone to grow into what suits them best.

Well each race will still start with skill bonuses and since attributes are gone and that we now have health/magicka/stamina I'm guessing each race will start with a certain bonus in those areas. Breton will probably still start with +50 magicka and Orcs could start with a bonus to health and stamina (since they have always started with a high endurance) Just an example of how it could work

Starting racial traits wouldn't stop anyone from playing how they like, they just won't be 'optimised' if they played as a pure warrior Bosmer.
Still more than capable in the role, just not taking advantage of their starting traits.

This.

A.) Saying that attributes were removed provides an incomplete image of the picture...Perks, skills, and stats all work together in a more detailed and involved manner than the rather boring (in my opinion) attribute system. The attribute system added numbers to skills...whoopy. Worthless.

B.) Perks add character traits, and modify skills and your character's capabilities

Given these two points, how can we postulate that this will effect races? Will, that's tough. We don't know yet. Assuming that all races will be the same goes against EVERYTHING Bethesda has said though, so let's toss that sort of pointless babble out the window. It's silly and inaccurate.

What IS likely? Race-specific perks, different health/stamina/magicka values for different races, different base capabilities, different proficiency with certain skills.

All of this reflects what the attributes could never really exemplify in a character. Do you see what I mean? This system allows for us to better express our character in a meaningful way, not just numerically =)

I think it'll highlight the differences between the races in a much, much more pronounced manner.

Bethesda wouldn't remove the attribute system without doing the above-- they've said they want to stress the differences between races, and they've said "These are the new game mechanics". Naturally, these two have to work together. That's the only option. So that's what will happen...and it sounds like the best way to represent differences to me.

Given the above, I'd say it'll be the ones we expect it to be: Orcs will be powerful physically, Redguard will be solid warriors (weaker in Magic). Khajit will likely get a "night eye" perk, and stealth benefits. Bretons will be magically inclined and skilled warriors, so on and so forth.

Hope this helps (pardon my English throughout, having trouble speaking it today heh)

The logical path (IMO) would be to have them keep those bonuses as modifiers to the base attribute (or skill), and not just be the starting value.

(Meaning that the base skills and stats all start the same, but the racial bonuses are applied to them afterward... even after they make 100. This keeps the relationship between the races throughout the game, and ensures that the strongest orc is stronger than the strongest human (except for Nords).

Yeah but bud, don't you recall that that decision pertains only to classes?

Your inference about races is inaccurate: your *race* decision is now the major one that you make before beginning the game. That's what will determine your early gameplay experience.

Sure, a Bosmer can be a warrior, but he still won't be predisposed to be a GOOD one. The stats are all still there mate, we just won't be fiddling with the numbers directly. Modifiers, as Drainy said, are a distinct possibility.

this is my prediction

health will replace endurance
magicka will replace intel
stamina will replace agility
luck, personality, strength, speed, and willpower will remain.

acrobatics and athletics will be removed as a skill because they affect stamina, now just put a point in stamina, the extra things they gave you will probably be unlocked when you gain enough stamina or in the form of a perk. there may be a few more things toned down in this manner but i can see why they did this and i dont think it will be game breaking at all. it actually makes more since to me.

In this game skill boasts are going to matter in the long run, because you level up faster when you increase higher skills, and there's also the race powers, so there is still plenty of reasons to pick different races.

Aesthetics and racial ability, which if I'm not mistaken are confirmed to still be in. With any luck, because attributes are gone, they will have more effect this time.

It have probably been mentioned, but I think that each race will start with a certain number in health, magica and stamina + their own natural abilities. Any race can do anything, but I think they will play somewhat different from each other.

To counteract this they could (and I'm just freeballing here) have some sort of race multiplier but no attributes. So like maybe the base damage is determined by what weapon you're using and what your skill with that type of weapon is (lets say the base damage of your particular mace is 30 pts) but then maybe races could have "unnacounted for" multipliers that apply to the base damage (maybe a nord has a 1.5 multiplier so a 30 damage mace does 45 damage and a wood elf has a .8 multiplier for 24 damage)

^source?

Or are you refering to health, magicka and stamina as 'stats'?

They said all attributes are out, all of them. The only ones that aren't redundant in that list is strength, and willpower. I don't how there going to replace there effects, but there gone.

This would be a very good system. Difficult to communicate efficiently to players in the game due to the number of skills that could be affected by racial traits but one that I would like to see.

I am sure each race will still have their own skill bonuses and special abilites that lean to a different flavor of combat.
At least this will give more of a reason to pick a race other than appearance.
They had this for other TES games, and it worked well.
I don't think any of the races have a particular advantage in combat, since a Breton can start blasting a way at an Orc, whole a Bosmer is sneaking around with a bow. At least where the inital bonuses are concerned anyway.