I don't think weapons work the way you think they work if you seriously think a wood elf is justified in doing half the damage a nord can do with the same sword. Skills using the sword matter a LOT more than the raw strength behind them, or at least it seems that the way Bethesda wants to build the TES world.

This is getting ridiculous. OF COURSE different races will start out with different skill levels. They aren't removing skills, they are removing attributes.
EXAMPLE: Orc starts with 20 blunt skill, Altmer starts with 5 blunt skill. Breton starts with 20 destruction skill, Redguard starts with 5 destruction skill. Get it?
It's really not going to be that bad.

Like i said in another topic race and body type will probably play a huge factor in how strong/agile/etc your character will be. For example Wood Elf with average body type gets .35 damage bonus with one-handed weapons, bulky body type gives a .55, and a slender body type gives a .20 damage bonus. Now what about a Nord character, average body type gives 2.0 bonus, bulky gives 3.5, and slim body type would give a 1.5... i think i exaggerated the numbers a bit but you guys get what i'm trying to say. This is what will probably happen now that we don't have any more attributes.

i dont understand either... picking race and birthsign used to mean so much in morrowind and skyrim.... how you chose to level up your stats... etc etc.... now you just have the most basic choices... i dont like it at all... they even had stats in fallout... granted they were more or less static compared to oblivion/morrowind skills but come on... give us something... if im stuck walking the same speed, carrying the same encumbrance, etc... from the beginning of the game im going to murder people... and if it goes up by leveling up explain how my mage can run fast... all im saying is why do they keep taking away stuff... its bad enough they cut out skills from morrowind to oblivion and oblivion to skyrim but they are cutting out too much and i dont see how they are going to differ the races and our characters without attributes and birthsigns...:end rant:

You can already beat a dead horse
We just dont know if you can ride one

Horses were confirmed im pretty sure
but the question of mounts still is unclear

I sincerely believe that there will be no notable differences, aside from aesthetics, between the races. None. Everything that Beth has announced yet about that whole aspect of the game has indicated that their intent is for the player to be able to make anything out of anything. No classes, no birthsigns, no attributes - no starting variables at all. Climb the warrior tree and you've got a warrior. Climb the mage tree and you've got a mage. Climb the thief tree and you've got a thief. And that'll be that.

If the OP was worried that Argonians couldn't beath underwater. Well I would find that absurd.

What I think beginning stats and abilities might be.

Altmer - Highest magicka, very low health, very low stanima, tolerance to disease.
Argonians - Water breathing, increased speed while swimming, Average 3 basic stats, unaffected by poison,
Bosmer - Good jump height, slight speed increase, most all animals will stay neutral to you. Low health, average stanima, average magicka
Bretons - Second best magicka, low stanima, average health, spell resistance.
Dunmer - Fire resistance, Average 3 basic stats
Imperials - Average 3 basic stats, some kind of mercantile/speech bonus
Khajiits - Average 3 basic stats, highest jump and take less fall damage.
Nords - Highest Health, Cold resistance, good stanima.
Orcs - Good health and stanima, low magicka, some kind of rage mode when health is low.
Redgaurds - Highest stanima, average health, low magicka, highest speed.

I knows its not balanced so nitpick the hell out of it.

yeah, but that still makes racial bonuses meaningless. If those bonuses have a tangible effect in high level characters then those are truly racial bonuses

honestly, it makes more sense to make them the same at the start of the game, just make some high lvl perks available to some races and not to other . . . i, for one, expect that bosmer can never reach the lvl of proficiency in 2H weapons that orcs can (just an example)

also, orcs being capable handling magic the same way as bretons?! lol, puh-lease

if they dont include major differences between races then ill probably wait for a mod that fixes it, or even try to make one myself (highly unlikely)

Depends on how far you wanted to push the limits of spell casting. The 50% magic resist can actually hurt bretons a lot later on if you are fighting other casters and want to use spell absorb as a sort of "pure caster " "character. You also wouldn't be able to abuse the whole adding a damaging effect to magic buff and getting a bigger buff on top of due to lowered magic resist from apprentice.

Definitely the best race if you don't plan on bending the rules a bit powergaming.

suuure.

You're saying it like it's a bad thing...

What would be different with classes, birthsigns and attributes? You press the warrior, mage and thief buttons at the very beginning instead of during gameplay. That's it.

In one of the earlier interviews Todd stated that they were trying to make races more differnt from each other. Concidering atributes are gone, although acording to Todd, what they do is just somewhwere else in the game.

Concidering this there are a few ways to give races a more different playstyle from each other:
-Giving different races acces to uniqe perks.
-Giving differen races unique perks from the start of the game.
-Enhancing the usefulness of the racial powers.
-Giving each race a hidden set of stats, wich cannot be controlled by the player. Simular to the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. or S.I.M.P.L.E. systems.
-A combination of the above.

(edit: fixed a typo)

Racial differences should be moderately strong at the start and subtle at the end in my opinion. Why have different races? The lore and the looks appeal to different people and allow people to make stories for their characters, not to mention all the lore of the provinces and such!

One of my math teachers had dyslexia. Sometimes he'd write the answer before the problem or sometimes he'd write the numbers wrong, but through an ingrained habit of double and triple checking his stuff he caught himself most of the time. Dyslexia can cause illiteracy for some people. Should all people with dyslexia be very poor at reading all because it's far more difficult for them? No! This is how I look at this. It would be harder for an Orc to master magic than a Breton or Altmer, but not impossible with dedication. They start with a disadvantage, but that should be narrowed the more they practice.

I like that idea. Giving different races unique perks at the beginning of the game. This way the physically strong races could have a starting perk that no other race has that would increase all weapon damage by a point or two. And the more magically inclined races could have a starting perk that no other race could aquire that would increase their magic damage by a point or two.
There could be one that allows stronger races to add more to their carrying ability each time health is raised versus other races.
These starting individualized perks can encompass many different factors.

So far this is the best use of perks that I have seen that would placate most of my dissapointment about the removal of attributes.

I expect the races are more different from each other gameplay wise then they were in mw or ob. BUT that this difference only serves to reinforce certain playstyles not to close off others.

As in even a bosmer can be a fighter but a nord is much better at it.

Even a redguard can be a mage but an altmer is far better at it.

My best guess? Race-specific perks.

Also, racials are only half the story when it comes to race selection. Some people choose specific races for aesthetic purposes or roleplay.

Like me! I tend to make it work depending on the race I pick.

Well that was just a rough example. I'm not saying that'd be the exact numbers but it does make sense that regardless of training or skill with that particular weapon, a 6'5", 250 pounds of muscle viking should be more "melee-ready" than a stringy little 4'9" "woodsman."
Plus I was just talking maces. Maybe the wood elf isn't 100% with maces or axes, but like 110% with swords and 140% with a bow. As a trade off the nord is like 120% with a sword but 70% with a bow (what with big clumsy fingers and the like)

Odds are you'll have some racial perks. Orcs and Nords will get bonuses to certain kinds of weapon damage, Bosmer will get bonuses to damage with bows and to sneaking, Dunmer will be resistant to fire with bonuses to fire damage or something. It will likely be similar to previous games, just done with starting perks instead of stats.