Kinda' like saying "Are swords redundant? There's axes/maces etc..."

Well, I'm not against spellmaking, but there isn't much point in arguing over it. It doesn't come down to someone disliking it, it comes down to Bethesda being unable to find an effective way to implement it. Aside from that, I didn't do too much spellmaking in game. There were a few spells i always made, but aside from those, I tended to use the pre-made spells from Midas Magic, LAME, etc. Script effects were able to go so much farther than what we had, and couldn't be replicated in game. If there were some unconventional ways to make the spells take hold, I might be more interested.

Yet people will see the poll, and claim guess no one like spellcraft....
Thanks op <_<

Except for the members of the community that don't care.

Which is the minority.

Bravo, good sir :clap:

Elder Scrolls has always been about openness, customization, and making choices, and it's the attitude of the newer fans who don't seem to appreciate this which makes me think Oblivion may have been worse than initially thought. The real Elder Scrolls fans know Oblivion was decent, but still a relative mediocrity in the Elder Scrolls series. However, I believe it was this mediocrity which allowed it to break through to the mindless masses, those who are used to a more simple, linear game. Thus, I fear this expanding of the fanbase in the wrong direction will only continue to perpetuate this trend of "streamlining" until the Elder Scrolls is reduced to a hugely successful generic Fable clone.

I love Elder Scrolls, and that's why I am being so critical of Skyrim. And why shouldn't I be? It's not like BSG had a perfectly clean track record, after Oblivion, which let me down terribly after looking forward to it so much. I am concerned because I care.

Well, the poll isn't the best... people are given and either/or situation where one isn't needed. We have all seen what spellmaking is like, but Dragon Shouts are new and shiny, we want to see them.

Dragon Shouts >>>> Spellmaking.

Shadow-Step, Force Push, Conjure Dragon >>>>>>>>>> boring spreadsheet +3 magnitude, +3 damage, +3 seconds (why not just make spells scale better to your Skill?)

They are still relevant. Don't equate the community with everyone caring about the spellcrafting feature. For the record, I want spellcrafting, but not at the expense of shouts.

This.

So dont equate the majority with not wanting it.

By the way, has someone gotten their hands on a super-advanced copy of Skyrim? I gotta assume as much since the TC knows the mechanics of dragon shouts from head to toe.

Oh, wait. Could he be making huge assumptions based only on personal bias/tidbits of information? Hmm... Yup.

There's people here that would rather have spellcrafting than DRAGONSHOUTS? Am I.... Am I missing something here? *Confused*

I can't understand how you fail to understand the greater trends of things here. Todd claims he wants to eliminate superfluous things, ie spellmaking, since it will be omitted. The whole point of my argument is why must these "superfluous" things be eliminated if the newer things are desired less ?

Not that you're assumptions are based on anything more either. At least I know what it means to lose spellmaking.

EDIT:
I cant say this how I mean it. I'm trying to avoid too many expectations and understand Bethesda's reasoning. Spellmaking isn't impossible to add here, but they want it to feel as smooth as everything else (also why they were iffy on horses)

Maybe we shouldn't argue about whether we should have spellmaking over shouts and instead give ideas about how to implement spellmaking with what we know about magic.

I agree


Sorry....no Im not sorry its my opinion. for the flood of new fans by which from my point of view do not fully grasp what makes TES...TES..or maybe they don't care, of which I state why the hell is Beth wasting their time listening to them then? its your choice not to use Spellmaking, and it being there doesn't make your life difficult. 85 spells over 6 schools DOES NOT equal alot of variety, this is probably one of the few situations where the over used phrase "don't like it don't use it" comes into play, its an entire avenue of plalystyles worth for OTHER people, and cutting it out saying it was spreadsheety and putting the magic back in magic is almost as stupid of a statement as saying We aren't making DLC's the size of Shivering isle because it took to long and we don't want to keep our fans waiting

If people would think before they post they'd know ENCHANTING is still in and is spellcreating but for weapons so whos to say the method for enchantment doesnt work for spellmaking? they are almost the same thing. yes their are new fans who get it, and even went so far as to plop thier faces in the older games, and some that didnt even need to in order to understand what TES is about, freedom. not some lackluster rpg with the same 5 spells that you cant change or talor to your own desires. you read that guy going on about the same 5 spell effects? your repritore of spells just got even smaller, ah but thats ok as long as its flashy and pressing a button, something awesome happens right? :confused:


Dragon shouts have nothing to do with the Magic system, they even have their own activation button on the Controller even more so have cooldowns, they dont fit hand in hand with what magic and spell creation, all im seeing here so far is a crap parrallel with what Fable started to do, so now you have to equipe spells on each hand, I.E Fable 3's spell gauntles style otherwise you can't use spells, if they are going to make it such a hassle and not have free form combat to adapt quickly during battle like Oblivion, atleast use morrowinds ready caste style where you put away weapons when you enter casting mode? not click through a shizzzara worth of Menus in the chance I dont have hotkeys are some ilk.

Are you looking at the same poll results as me? Newer things are "less desired"? Do you see how many voted for shouts?

Dragon shouts are not redundant. redundant thread is redundant

I didn't.

OP your poll failed you miserably.

My sentiment exactly, I could not agree more.
Ive even read on here that appealing to the lowest common denominator isnt always a bad thing.
Erm, yes it is.

Lets take for instance cheese. Not everyone likes blue veined cheese, not everyone likes brie.
Now large cheesemakers now this and they invariable churn out a bland generic cheese that has no unique qualities whatsoever. They usually call it cheddar, even though it has nothing in common with the real cheddar I cherish.
Wich is a bad thing, by definition.
I would rather have a world filled with myriads of flavours, experiences and uniqueness, of wich some will not be to my taste, than a world where there is only one type of cheese and its bland and tasteless.

Because that is what appealing to lowest common denominator means.
Removing every tidbit of unique flavour.

I dont want an elder scrolls game with all unique elements carefully removed and made to taste like water, where the only thing in common with an RPG is the stamp on the front that lies when it says 'RPG'.

I think spell-creation conflicts with their DW system.

Aren't you supposed to combine spells from 2 hands, not just make a spell that has everything in one hand?

Lets agree about something, we both want spell creation, but the poll is ridiculous.

Indeed.