I understand your point about it imposing limitations IF you use the stock spells you find in-game and they're not powerful enough. If Spellcraft were a skill, it could solve that. However, that's out. As for using it in a way that works with the new magic system, I think it could be done with balance if regular stock spells level with you, and you get to craft better ones as you get higher up. Then power is equal between stock spells and craftable ones. The craftable ones just get to be more unique.

I would love to see that compromise implemented, and it would make everyone happy, IMO.



Halberds/Polearms are likely in, not necessarily "spears" exactly. Unconfirmed, but very likely based on concept art.

The new skill set will make gameplay smoother and better, IMO.

Yes, enchanting is in as its own skill. Abusing spellcrafting wouldn't be an issue with Skyrim's "fire-for-effect" leveling system. No more boosting.

Spell-making would over-power mages, and not just in DPS measurements.

Each archetype has a craft skill: Warriors - smithing, Rogues - alchemy, Mages - enchanting. In addition, all of these crafting skills benefit other classes (alchemy helps mages and warriors, enchanting helps warriors and rogues, smithing helps rogues and mages). Spell-making would give a second crafting ability to mages, and one that only benefits mages. A mage gets special treatment with the ability to do more.

Secondly, spell-making would make dual-wielding spells redundant. Why waste two hands for two spells, when you can make a single spell with the same effects and free up your other hand? Just combine the effects into a single spell, while still being able to hold a shield or sword on top of it (or even yet another spell with multiple effects). A mage again gets special treatment with the ability to do more.

(this, coming from someone who plays mages)

I like the sound of this choose your own effect on the fly much more than having to switch inbetween spells.

Tap once for the fire ball, that's kinda like the base damage. You could hold down the button with the same spell and a higher damage dealing but quicker magicka draining flamethrowner comes from your hand. When crouched and looking at a serface, think mines in James Bond Agent Under Fire, after pressing the spell botton the character will creat a rune that will explode when someone gets near enough. And for aoe, rapidly pressing the button will charge the fire attack in your arms, the more magicka you put in creating a larger aoe so the more magicka you have the more area you can cover, and once you finally stop pressing the character will punch the ground creating that huge fire explotion.

Like this, the way the spell is used is up to you instead of needing five of the same basic spells with different effects for what you want to do. And if you want to combine a second spell with your fire spell, well use your second hand. You could be charging a paralize aoe spell in one hand and holding enemies off with a fire spell in another. Its all up to you.

Scrolls could be used as well if players want to use two or more spell effects in one hand. Here's hoping for the ability to enchant pieces of paper. Enchanting a piece of paper could act like spellmaking, in so acting as a guide to help the character channel magicka into more effects without straining the arm. Better yet, enchanting is a skill, so spellmaking in tern would also be tied down to a skill.

Actually the whole concept of categorising spells into different forms and effects inheritably makes it more limited. Yes you can create many combinations on your own, but all of them would just be a slight change on the original spell, thus making most of the spells' look, feel, usage really similar.
If you look at other games with no spellmaking, most of the time you'll see that no two spells are alike, this couldn't be said about TES games though.

This system works for enchanting, because it doesn't need big variety. Your sword will either burn, zap, steal your enemy's soul or all three of the above.

Or blind or even drain health because of the swords low damage or even slow down the enemy so my thief can get around but I'd still love to throw a Burden and drain fatigue all in a neatly packed fire ball on the fly and get away.


and for one spamming immersion on your sig (which I use to love) this is sounding very unimmersiony!

Xarnac, I just wanted to quote info posted from another member:

"booheads

Curate


Group: Members
Joined: 08-June 10
Posted Today, 03:58 AM
Although I wouldn't mind spellcrafting, I'm 100% certain its going to be greatly changed or removed because of 2 very big gameplay implementations:

1. Duel Wielding, combining spells in spell-creator makes DW trivial. I don't see how the old system could work with this, they'd need to change spell-creation to compensate.

2. New Dynamic-spells. Holding down the button results in flamethrower, tap for fireball, ground target for glyph, DW two for big fireball, possibly hold 2 for aoe. Isn't this essentially spell-creation in the palm of your hand? Again, I don't see how the old system can in any way work with this unless you had to fill out 5 different effect windows for each spell you made. Seems silly and redundant to a degree.



Combine DW, Dynamic-Spells, and natural scaling with your Skill-lvl ---> don't you basically get a amped active/tactical version of spell-creation?
This post has been edited by booheads: Today, 04:03 AM"

The scripting of spells seems to be MUCH more complex than previous ES games.. personally I would rather them take out spellcrafting if it means more dynamic spell casting.. I thought it was "redundant" to have to buy/learn a different spell depending if you wanted to burn stuff with a touch, or throw a fireball. REALLY clutters up the spellbook Now it seems, with your character having knowlege of fire manipulation, for example, the can be creative with it. It seems they want the combat to be more freeform, and being able to do multiple effects with different spells in each hand seems like fun. Charge up and freeze a group of enemies with a charged frost spell, then shatter them all with lightning..

I wonder how Necromancy will play a role? Maybe charging up the summon skeleton spell actually makes the corpse of an enemy rise up or something? (like the King of Worms staff)..

If the magick overhaul is done properly, it could very well be much more awesome than any previous ones. Same goes for dragon shouts, if done well, great!

Tiber Septim was, indeed, Atmoran, which is quite close to be Nord. Though it hasn't been said too much about Thu'um, in the Lore. We know that Nords used it. But that doesn't mean that other races couldn't. It was in Hight Hrothgar, in Skyrim, where Nords learnt how to use the Voice, so maybe that's the reason.

You've kinda lost the point of my sig....

And you can always just cast Burden then drain fatigue (then again, I don't really know why would you want to cast both in the first place, when just one of them does the job just as well...)

You've kinda lost the point of my sig....

And you can always just cast Burden then drain fatigue (then again, I don't really know why would you want to cast both in the first place, when just one of them does the job just as well...)

Well Dragon Shouts right now are part only of Skyrim and I doubt the will appear again in other TES games, but they will expand Lore more.
For example confirmed Dragon Shout thats push enemies cannot be alternative of Telekineses spell since can only push (but with great power) actor while spell will allow more options like reach and manipulate items/activators from large distance.

well i know your sig is making fun of immersion screamers yeah, but I still loved it none the less.

Drain fatigue makes their damages less damaging, and Burden slows them dow... and fire roasts them while im runnnin away...yeah? and thats too much switching hotkeys for what could have been 1 spell...

In Morrowind you could make a spell with the following effects: Command creature, feather, fortify speed, waterwalk. Cast this on the mudcrab merchant, then lead him to Suran so you don't have to hunt for him. This is an example of the glory of spellcrafting which will be missed

I also couldn't have that spell in my hand and another weapon.

... So? :shrug:

You won't understand if you haven't followed the thread.

Well, by having a listed 85 spells, we'll already be limited.....so why not add variety and option to that by allowing you to craft spells combining multiple effects, and do so at different levels, so you can have spells with a range of powers from weak to uber-stong. And this would be balanced because it wouldn't necessarily give mages any boost over what other player types have. The option could be related to one of the mage guilds, or you could even just pay someone to craft a spell that you dictate if you don't want to join a mage guild. I guarantee, no matter what, Skyrim WILL be about the option of using any playstyle and being successful with it.

Anyway, that's just one idea. I'm not nearly as well-versed in the Spellcrafting argument as I should be because I just have never needed to use it much. But I would like to see Bethesda find an equitable solution for all players of Skyrim that doesn't cause imbalances.

Two Worlds 2 even has spell creation. Beth cant let frickin Two Worlds top them at Magic. Also, there's no way to spin it. Not having spell creating is a limitation.

What's with everyone crying over spears?

Wrong thread friend

I still have yet to hear an argument for spellcrafting that indicates the ability to make unique spells instead of the 'I Win' buttons. I know that people want to be lazy in mind and body because it takes less energy, but lack of strategy is boring to me. When you have the option to combine and tweak every effect into spells for each situation it eliminates strategy and becomes a game of 'fill out the spreadsheet'. With the new system it sounds like you can tailor a spell to do the desired effect on the fly without the feeling of 'I Win!' buttons. This will allow me to actual feel like I am creating and performing magic (which I think is the goal of BGS). I do not want to fill out a form every time I want to make my magic.

Perhaps that is the difference in opinion. Players who want to feel in control of the magic and those who want to fill out a form.

I can't decide whether you are for or against Spell making in your post, but as a thought.


you have to be kidding me if your telling me there is no strategy in making spells for unique situations?

and if its spreadsheety what is enchanting then?

you must not be reading then. Not only have we given examples of the non OPEd spells we create, but weve also said how it adds strategy and gameplay that wouldn't be in there without it. Just because X person cant think of anything imaginative, or unique to do with spell making, doesnt mean that we cant.

I am not against spell making, but I am against the idea that it is indispensable.

Let me try to be clearer. Oblivion spell making always felt like filling out a spreadsheet instead of manipulating magical forces. That is my problem with it compared to what the Skyrim magic system will be (hopefully).

By that stance then no aspect of Magic in TES felt like manipulating Magical Forces....you -bought- spells >_> not learned them saved for that one instance in finger of the mountain.



I like you would rather a realtime aspect where your total Magicka was gathered and you would shape that into a spell memorized with spell effects that the player learns over the course of the game sure, but getting rid of is not the answer in my book.


I'd go into detail but that would be flooding the page with suggestions.