While spell-crafting hasn't been confirmed out, I'd rather have it than Dragon shouts, dragons, or any other crafting/creating mechanic. If I could only have one that is.

Edit: Apparantly a new IGN preview has confirmed no spell making? Is this true? If so, I probably wont even get Skyrim.

They way Todd has been talking about it, I'm betting it doesn't make the game. It just doesn't seem to fit the way spells are in Skyrim.

As for not buying the game because of that, I think you should reconsider. Skyrim seems to be an improvement on more or less all areas compared to Oblivion and other prequels.

Na, no spell making is a deal breaker. Its essential for a third of my builds. I'll just go back to Morrowind/Oblivion.

It's certainly your prerogative, but can you elaborate on why it is a deal breaker? I am curious as to why it is so important.

If they overhauled the magic system, then they could have easily expanded it to include the effects of Dragon Shouts, rather than simplifying it, which they almost certainly have done.

I mean the Shouts could turn out to be awesome, but at this point do we even really know what Dragon Shouts do? We only have a vague notion and I just don't see how Dragons necessitate these shouts.

The breath and the voice are the vital essence of a Nord. When they defeat great enemies they take their tongues as trophies. These are woven into ropes and can hold speech like an enchantment. The power of a Nord can be articulated into a shout, like the kiai of an Akaviri swordsman. The strongest of their warriors are called "Tongues." When the Nords attack a city, they take no siege engines or cavalry; the Tongues form in a wedge in front of the gatehouse, and draw in breath. When the leader lets it out in a kiai, the doors are blown in, and the axemen rush into the city. Shouts can be used to sharpen blades or to strike enemies. A common effect is the shout that knocks an enemy back, or the power of command. A strong Nord can instill bravery in men with his battle-cry, or stop a charging warrior with a roar. The greatest of the Nords can call to specific people over hundreds of miles, and can move by casting a shout, appearing where it lands.

The most powerful Nords cannot speak without causing destruction. They must go gagged, and communicate through a sign language and through scribing runes

Shor's Tongue

The first song of King Wulfharth is ancient, circa 1E500. After the defeat of the Alessian army at Glenumbria Moors, where King Hoag Merkiller was slain, Wulfharth of Atmora was elected by the Pact of Chieftains. His thu'um was so powerful that he could not verbally swear into the office, and scribes were used to draw up his oaths. Immediately thereafter the scribes wrote down the first new law of his reign: a fiery reinstatement of the traditional Nordic pantheon. The Edicts were outlawed, their priests put to the stake, and their halls set ablaze. The shadow of King Borgas had ended for a span. For his zealotry, King Wulfharth was called Shor's Tongue, and Ysmir, Dragon of the North.

Kyne's Son

The second song of King Wulfharth glorifies his deeds in the eyes of the Old Gods. He fights the eastern Orcs and shouts their chief into Hell. He rebuilds the 418th step of High Hrothgar, which had been damaged by a dragon. When he swallowed a thundercloud to keep his army from catching cold, the Nords called him the Breath of Kyne.

Old Knocker

The third song of King Wulfharth tells of his death. Orkey, an enemy god, had always tried to ruin the Nords, even in Atmora where he stole their years away. Seeing the strength of King Wulfharth, Orkey summoned the ghost of Alduin Time-Eater again. Nearly every Nord was eaten down to six years old. Boy Wulfharth pleaded to Shor, the dead Chieftain of the Gods, to help his people. Shor's own ghost then fought the Time-Eater on the spirit plane, as he did at the beginning of time, and he won, and Orkey's folk, the Orcs, were ruined. As Boy Wulfharth watched the battle in the sky he learned a new thu'um, What Happens When You Shake the Dragon Just So. He used this new magic to change his people back to normal. In his haste to save so many, though, he shook too many years out on himself. He grew older than the Greybeards, and died. The flames of his pyre were said to have reached the hearth of Kyne itself

You're asking why spellmaking, in a series that has always been about customization and openness, is a deal breaker?

It's certainly your prerogative, but can you elaborate on why it is a deal breaker? I am curious as to why it is so important.

They didn't "add in" shouts. Some Nords always had the ability. If you read the in-game books like Children of the Sky and the Five Songs of King Wulfharth you'll find information about the Shouts. Kind of interesting effects.

. . .

"The most powerful Nords cannot speak without causing destruction. They must go gagged, and communicate through a sign language and through scribing runes"

I make very unique spells that fit with my unique builds, that in turn make for really unique gameplay. Unless there's a way to combine effects and name them (which is basically just spell making), I'll just go back to a TES that has it. Id rather they delay the game to include spell making than scrap it. They say they are having a hard time implementing it, but I guarantee there will be a mod for it within the first six months of release. If I had a PC, that wouldn't be too bad, but I dont. I dont see how they could take away one of the best customization tools and something that separated TES from most lesser RPGs. I think its even more important than smithing, or enchanting.

I make very unique spells that fit with my unique builds, that in turn make for really unique gameplay. Unless there's a way to combine effects and name them (which is basically just spell making), I'll just go back to a TES that has it. Id rather they delay the game to include spell making than scrap it. They say they are having a hard time implementing it, but I guarantee there will be a mod for it within the first six months of release. If I had a PC, that wouldn't be too bad, but I dont. I dont see how they could take away one of the best customization tools and something that separated TES from most lesser RPGs. I think its even more important than smithing, or enchanting.

I can definitely understand your wariness, but if the magic system is being completely overhauled, the very design philosophy behind it changing, I think that they saying it is difficult to implement is completely valid. Now that spells are essentially weapons with multiple mutable uses, the spreadsheet design of spells probably just doesn't work.

Like I said it's your prerogative, and I'm not going to damn your opinion because it's perfectly valid, but I don't exactly agree with it. Personally I never used spellcrafting.

I haven't heard anything about it being "hard to implement"... All I've heard is that it "won't fit with the way we want to implement magic", i.e. to spreadsheet:y and "takes away the magic in magic".

Which makes no sense to me. Too spreadsheety? Er, its an RPG thats want we want. 'Takes the magic out of magic', what the hell does that even mean. The 'hard to implement' came from earlier interviews.

I think the appropriateness of dragonshouts will differ charter to charter.... if your play as a nord warrior and you make the main quest your most important objective dragon shouts are going to be crucial to that, but if your playing as a wood elf assassin you probably wont have a fleeting care about some silly prophecy steeped in dragon blood! and you would just look abit stupid taking down a dragon by shouting at it.

Actually that's the exact opposite of what I want. I like the Roleplay aspect of RPG's, and the spreadsheet breaks my immersion terribly when it comes to the mysteriousness of magic. I would argue that a lot of people wouldn't want the spreadsheet, which is why spellcrafting (as seen in this thread's poll) isn't that important to people.

Which makes no sense to me. Too spreadsheety? Er, its an RPG thats want we want. 'Takes the magic out of magic', what the hell does that even mean. The 'hard to implement' came from earlier interviews.

I'd also like to add that two of the biggest misconceptions about advocates of spell creation is that we are A: trying to just make a bunch of OPed destruction spells with no imagination r creativity behind them, or B: Its all about destruction magic. A lot of the better spells I made had nothing to do with destruction magic and when people say that certain effects negate each other and thats why we shouldn't have spell creation, they usually cant cite any outside of the destruction school.

Personally my only worry is when people let one thing, like spell creation, make or break the game for them. TES games are huge with a vast amount of things to do. If you spent so much time creating spells that not having that option makes it a non-game to you, then I am unsure what to say. I can understand being disapointed, I can understand writing to Bethesda about it. But not even playing the game because one feature you wanted didn't make it? I mean, come on. That sounds silly. There is no one aspect of TES that would make me not buy the game if it weren't included. I might [censored] and moan if they took out, say, repairing, but I'd still play it and I would probably still enjoy the hell out of it. So my main concern is why is this SO important to make or break the game? Can you really not enjoy the game not even a little bit without spell creation? If not, that tells me that you must have spent most of your time creating spells or something.

Huh?

Spellcrafting was, IMO, most usefull with schools like alteration and illusion. It ain't rocket science to make a spell that damages your opponent with fire. And even though it isn't rocket science to make a spell that gives you 75% armour for 5 secs or a charm spell off 100pts for 5 secs either, it is a bit closer. That said, I have no idea what you spells you made in Oblivion.

Personally my only worry is when people let one thing, like spell creation, make or break the game for them. TES games are huge with a vast amount of things to do. If you spent so much time creating spells that not having that option makes it a non-game to you, then I am unsure what to say. I can understand being disappointed, I can understand writing to Bethesda about it. But not even playing the game because one feature you wanted didn't make it? I mean, come on. That sounds silly. There is no one aspect of TES that would make me not buy the game if it weren't included. I might [censored] and moan if they took out, say, repairing, but I'd still play it and I would probably still enjoy the hell out of it. So my main concern is why is this SO important to make or break the game? Can you really not enjoy the game not even a little bit without spell creation? If not, that tells me that you must have spent most of your time creating spells or something.