Spell Crafting I'm glad it's gone. I can't wait for the Dragon Shouts.

I get that, I used to combine spells like command and invisibillity because I'd always use them one after another anyways and "saved time" doing so (know that's not the most creative example, but nvm). But if the only thing you want to do is to combine spells, then you can just with this new system use spell A in the left hand and spell B in the right hand? That is asssuming you can use both hands at the same time. (multitasking ftw)

That's not what Im talking about. Not combing two spells ala Fable 3, by dual wielding them. Not to mention naming the spell is just as important as actually creating one. No more spelunker spells, no more heart attack/curse spell. I dont know why anybody would want, or be happy with less features. Most likely because they personally didnt use them and so they must not matter. :rolleyes: Again, not talking about you personally. I use every feature/gameplay style in an TES game, over a dozen or so characters. I dont want less of anything. I'll defend X feature the same I would with spell creation. How about instead of the thousandth immersion/realism inclusion request we focus on things that were in previous titles that have been cut for no real reason. I'd also add that defending a mechanic in a thread like this is pretty ridiculous.

I'd rather have the dragon shouts than customized spells. Usually I'm beligerantly pro customization, but I kind of feel that with Dragon Shouts...I don't know it feels more mysterious and ancient. I just feel like it makes sense...that this ancient language is so powerful that the very words affect the fabic of the universe. Just seems that there is a really deep and interesting story to be told there, and integral to the Skyrim experience.

I will say though...I"m REALLY going to miss Hoptoad (+100 acrobatics for 4 seconds, feather 150) Phat Lewt (Luck +100) and Tri-elemental Embrace (frost/flame/shock 100 points). Spell customization sure can be fun.

Yeah well all in all more features are being included in Skyrim than removed. And what has been added hasn't been added because of our "requests", it was added because Bethesda found them to be enough fun and beneficial enough for the gameplay that they were worth the time.

And Todd Howard has told us why spellcasting seems to have been cut, because it didn't fit with the image they're trying to create.

All in all, I get it why you want spellcrafting. It's fun and sure added a lot of game time for many players. But the positive things about Skyrim seems to far outweight the negative things and seing as Bethesda don't have infinite time/resources, we're just goning to have to settle for a good game which may not have a feature or two that we really wanted.

Spell creating is just as important as enchanting or smithing. Might as well not have those either. I'll give a small, off the top of my head example of some of these spells Ive been talking about.

Spelunking spell: Detect Life 60 seconds + Night Eye 60 seconds + Water breathing 60 seconds + Feather 100 for 60 seconds

Vampire Telekinesis: Absorb Health X amount for Y seconds + Absorb Fatigue X amount for Y seconds + Calm for Y seconds

Equestrian Aquarius: Fortify Speed 100 on touch for 60 seconds + Water Walking on touch

Heart Attack/Curse/etc: Drain Fatigue 100 pts + Damage Fatigue 100 pts + Drain Health 100 pts + Damage Health y pts

Armor Summoned From Fire: Fire Damage 3 points on self + Fortify Magicka for 120 secs on Self + Bound full armor set

Another Curse: Dispel on touch/missile + weakness to Fire/Frost/Lightning/Magic + Damage Health/Endurance

I would much rather have spellcrafting for the reason that there is no way in wich a system of premade spells can ever have a fraction of the complexity and possibilities spellmaking offers.

I think dragon shouts are a game mechanic to allow all classes to have a chance at taking down dragons.

Afterall given a dragon can fly and breathe fire, on paper you would think a melee oriented barbarian character would have no chance against it as he'd be toast (literally) before he could get in range to smack the dragon with his axe. Dragon shouts just give that barbarian an ability to get in range, provide protection against or to some how limit the mobility/toughness of the dragon to give him a fighting chance.

hence why dragons could make mincemeat out of anyone except someone who has access to these dragonshout abilities (ie the dragonborn)

One last thing on spell creation before I go. From the sounds of the interview, I dont think no spell making was confirmed, I think Todd just didnt want to answer the Q, so he ignored it. They are probably still trying to find a way to implement it in one way or another. despite what some of the people on this board say, spell making is a huge important mechanic. Its one of the many things that makes an Elder Scrolls game an Elder Scrolls game.

I might put off getting it until a DLC or mod gives us spellcrafting if it is out. Honestly it is that important.

As for the "new" system can anyone actually say how it adds anything to the game. It is a serious question. So lets say, pressing the left mouse button throws a fireball, holding it down creates a flamethrower, left [censored] and left mouse is setting a trap, and block+left click is a point blank area of effect. Oh wow, look how zippy that is, it adds so much. But wait, I press hotkey 1 and throw a fireballs, hot key 2 and it is a flamethrower, hot key 3 to set traps, hot key for to point blank area of effect. So basically I got a expanded hotkey system. I'd rather have 1-0 and shift 1-0 and cntrl 1-0 for specific spells than the new system.

Losing spell crafting for a expanded hotkey system just isn't worth it. We are giving up thousands of spells(technically more but practically thousands) so we can get a few hundred spells with a slightly superior interface. I guess xbox people get a much better interface since hotkeys were hugely limited, but I'd rather pause and pick a spell from my custom made spells than have like triple the spells mapped to my x,y keys.

I must admit, dragon shouts sound cool and all, good idea and I'm looking forward to them, but spellmaking was one of the best systems elder scrolls (or any RPG for that matter) ever had.

Most of my characters use some magic, thieves learn some illusion, warriors some destruction and my fave gets a lot out of alteration. The possibilities were almost endless, often flavourful and always fun. A touch spell that did cold damage and paralyzed, a thief with a last ditch heal and invisibility, blasting foes and healing me at the same time, it was glorious.

I'm sure that the new system would be great and all without it but I'd be sad to see it go.

Also, I'm sure that the spells and effects must be laid out in a spreadsheet somewhere, presumably with some formulae for magika costs etc. Slap on a simple combination factor and stick with the dominant animation, can making it be that hard? I mean it wouldn't be perfect but it'd be something. Guess if the costs were all manually done it'd be more of a hassle but still...

Fingers crossed.

Dragon Shouts are plot specific abilities. Saying they are redundant is like saying the racial abilities are as well because they are basically just spells limited to 1 use per day (in Oblivion anyway).

Off Topic: I guess the 'spreadsheet' fanatics can not understand how dynamic spells allow customization organically. I understand that people want to cast 5 spells simultaneously, but that kind of 'spam the 'IWIN!" button style bores me. Without combining spells together there is absolutely no reason for spell creation when there is already going to be ways of adjusting spell effects to your desire. With dual wield spells I believe you will be able to cast 2 spells at once or 1 extra powerful spell which would allow you to command an enemy while turning yourself invisible. I think it makes more sense for role playing purposes and will feel less... artificial.

That's not what we are advocating and not really what spell making is about. Skyrim's Fable 3 style duel wield mix and match cant touch the endless amount of spells you could make in previous games.

Enh... I guess the numbers approach is appealing to some people (not me personally). I'm glad to see the spreadsheets gone, now spellcrafting is fun, but from what they've told us about magic, its really hard to pull off. The biggest part of spellcrafting was combining effects, which from what they've told us, will probably be implemented through using different spells at the same time. That would be a little redundant don't you think?

So far, spellcrafting has always been an effect and a bunch of numbers acting as its parameters, if the numbers are removed its just an effect. They would have to put a filter on effects that don't, or cant work in the same manner.

Er, the spells are still going to have numbers and variables. They wont just be effects. Seriously, spell creation was that hard and complex for some of you?

Guys, seriously...stop relying on DLC's to add things that should already be in game. I can't get where people say "Im glade spell makng isnt in" like they are the only people that play TES or that everyone plays the way they do. spell making IS a Core feature of TES and don't wet your pants over the number 85, its 85 spells not spell effects, if it where spell effects then there would be no issue making spells, its an art, the way of the mages, not buying some spell and spamming it, we all had spells or made a spell that suited certain situations and you want that to diminish? at best there would be a handful of spells for each school out of the 85 total. and that *flashy* magic back in magic they are toting around at the moment doesnt reduce the fact that we are the lesser in options and applicable spells in play throughs.

what part of magic making was spreadsheety? would you rather it be totally descripted by words? like Duration Long, Super long, OFMG long? when you caste the spells im pretty sure the numbers don't apply in your mind as to whats going on? don't hang on his....suggestible terminology no one thought that way before that stupid anology became rampant on the forum.

I mean really? seriously? so that means we shouldn't have smithing or enchantment either (BOTH ARE IN GAME) because they are spreadsheety too?


he didnt confirm or deny Spell making, whats perplexing is he JUST stated what spellmaking was for enchanting...Enchanting is in, but no spellmaking? ok.

Dragon shouts = a great addition for questers. If you like scouring the land for hidden secrets, now there is an uber reward for doing it.

I don't think Todd's a hypocrite, predictable, maybe.

I would gladly have given up Dragon shouts for spears.

I don't play ES for the story line. Weaker series depend on "epic" story lines to drag people in. ES depends on having an open world where you can do what you want. When you remove several classes of weapons from human history, it limits your ability to roleplay any character you want.

I get it, bows are more popular than other missile weapons. But swords are more popular than other melee weapons, doesn't mean we should get rid of axes and warhammers.

What I don't understand is how people can admit that we know so little about dragon shouts... and then go make a judgment on whether or not dragon shouts are worthwhile based on that complete lack of knowledge. I won't know what to think about dragon shouts probably until I see them in action.

As for Todd being a hypocrite, is it not possible that your interpretation of his statements is at odds with what he intended? I think it is entirely possible (dare I say likely?) that Todd's actions are consistent with his stated intentions, and that instead people are projecting their own desires onto his words, thus leading to the conclusion by some that he is a hypocrite.

no need to get aggressive. I used spell crafting a lot, they just they want to remove the science to it. Personally, I really don't care are it though. There is a lot more diversity and options that can be added from outside the game. Not much different (to me) between 300 fire damage, or 100 fire, frost, and shock, except that it might affect resistances differently.

Dragon Shouts seem more like the "Powers" of Morrowind and Oblivion, than magic. They have a universal cooldown from what I've read, and probably cost no magicka.

Also, I don't think spellcrafting would work very well in the new combat system. You craft your spells by equipping active combos now, rather than just some menus and gold.

Agreed that they seem like greater powers that you would find in Oblivion.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the Dragon Shout system is all about.

There is an old game called "Dungeon Master" that some of you may have played. The spell system was based on combining different syllables (or runes) two to four at a time to create certain spell effects. The first syllable was the spell's power, the second was the element, the third was the form, and the fourth was alignment.

I'm wondering if the shouts are anything like this. It was a great system, so I wouldn't be disappointed if they are similar.

How is something that is an integral part of the story of the game redundant?

Dragon shouts is a different form of "magic", it is something cultural about it and few can learn it.
We don't know all the effects of dragon shouts, but it's a part of the story of finding these words and even quests made for them.

A generic fireball or Ice spike or lightning bolt in the magic is just the same old stuff with new effects.

Saying the dragon shouts are redundant is the same as saying we only need one armor and weapon of each class, the rest is redundant.

Spell-crafting is overrated in my opinion,for PC there will be lots of mods implementing new spells and hell probably even a mod that brings in spell crafting.

Dragon shouts is unique for this Elderscroll game, it is all about dragons, grey beards with their mighty voices which I believe has something to do with the shouts as well.

Another way to look at it is that enemy mages can use the same magic we players use with Ice and fire spells etc, but dragon shouts will be player only, except for a few important character in the game I'd imagine.
It will also be really fun to gain these shouts, to seek them out and have the uniqueness of their power.

Summon a dragon to help you fight, teleport, breath fire, sounds pretty cool to me.