Todd claims they want to get rid of the "superfluous elements" and begin anew. So they get rid of the "superfluous" things like spears, a few skills, and spellcrafting, and they add in smithing and dragon shouts?

To me, so far dragon shouts seem a bit redundant and gimmicky in a world where there is already magic spells. I would much rather have spellcrafting. What do you think?

Dragon shouts are part of the story of the game. They will never be in another ES game.

I don't think spears, skills, spellcrafting have anything to do with smithing or dragon shouts. This is irrelevant and they aren't connected to each other in terms of playability.
This is not adequate causation.

i agree with both of you (two first posts). really wish spellcrafting was in

I think I'm happy with the overhauled magic system. If it's what it seems it will be, I won't miss Spellcrafting at all.

Oh, and Dragonshouts are not like magic at all. They include a bunch of different effects that have not much to do with what magic has traditionally offered us, in TES. And the Lore behind them is cool.

Spears, get over it.
Skills, well they've merged some with others, brought back enchanting. As to acrobatics and athletics, they're most likely tied to the attributes etc more.
Spellcrafting, although it was a nice edition we have yet to learn enough about the mechanics of the spells to get a clear picture as to wheter it would work/make sense or not (atleast IMO).

Smithing (and the other crafting thingies) are a nice addition and more than makes up for the "loss" of spears and some skills IMO.
Wheter dragon shouts are redundant or not, I guess we'll have to wait untill 11/11-11.

Considering the fact that there are...you know... dragons in the game and that they're an integral part of the story, one would assume dragon shouts are pretty important.

^
This. I'm actually quite excited for dragon shouts and smithing.

I was talking about the general attitude of Todd there. I guess I'm addressing two separate points, with the Dragon Shouts being a subset of the first

I get what you're saying, but that's a stretch. The power to speak some words and time slows down/your feet stop making noise. How is that not magic? Under any definition that is magic.

You wouldn't be a Dragonborn if you couldn't use dragon shouts. Removing them would pretty much break the story.

And putting them into a school of Magic would make pure warriors and thieves unable to be Dragonborn, not very fair.

And come on, spellcrafting allowed for some ridiculous game exploits.

And so smithing shouldn't be in? Let's take out enchantment as well, theres absolutely no use for that when we have a world full of enchanted weapons already.

Also spears haven't been taken out of Skyrim, they weren't reimplemented.

The devs are making their best to make the game enjoyable for EVERYONE, they're aren't tailoring it to fit every single want of every single player.

If they overhauled the magic system, then they could have easily expanded it to include the effects of Dragon Shouts, rather than simplifying it, which they almost certainly have done.

I mean the Shouts could turn out to be awesome, but at this point do we even really know what Dragon Shouts do? We only have a vague notion and I just don't see how Dragons necessitate these shouts.

The Spellcrafting decision had nothing to with his superfluous design argument. They took it out not because it was superfluous, but because the magic system has been overhauled and the spreedsheet way just doesn't work for it anymore. Now magic is mutable with multiple ways to use a single spell; spellcrafting would gimp what magic can do too much to have it.

Dragonshouts are abilities that all "classes" could use, so even my two handed barbarian type character will be able to steal a dragon's soul Megaman style and knock some [censored] out. It's not redundant, it's another layer of how characters will work, and it's tied deeply into the story and out motivations.

I am perfectly happy with how it's shaping up personally. I mean, in all honesty, because of perks, Skyrim is more complex than any of it's predecessor's when it comes to character development. Getting rid of useless tuft simply means that every choice you make in your character's development is rewarding and you aren't stuck cursing yourself for putting 20 points in basketweaving.

Spellcrafting is useless in a game where magic will scale and change range dynamically. Besides it's absence also eliminates the grinding exploit of 1pt spells. Honestly that seems to be the main reason for many people's objection to it's removal.

I think the appropriateness of dragonshouts will differ charter to charter.... if your play as a nord warrior and you make the main quest your most important objective dragon shouts are going to be crucial to that, but if your playing as a wood elf assassin you probably wont have a fleeting care about some silly prophecy steeped in dragon blood! and you would just look abit stupid taking down a dragon by shouting at it.

Dragon shouts rather feel like glorified lesser or greater powers to me at the moment. We'd need more information to objectively judge them however.

Yes, well, there are spells that do that in other games. But I like how Bethesda is doing it, because for we have seen they are effects useful not only for mages, but for all kind of characters (teleport behind you enemy and that). I'm pretty excited about it.



Yes, they could have. But as I have said, I see Dragonshouts having a slightly different purpose. They are for every character, not only for mages. And I like that about being Dragonborn... you now, in Morowind you were the reincarnation of Nerevar, the most badass Chimer ever, but you didn't feel like a mythical hero. Same goes for Oblivion, though there you began being just a normal guy or gal. I think that with Skyrim I will be able to think of my character as a real hero more than anytime before.

I love common sense
But seriusly if someone think that the spellsystem is less advanced by now they need to do some research. Fromwhat I have heard/read the character and all archertypes will be more complex than any ES game too this date.

Seing as this woold elf assasin could get some rather nice abilities by killing these dragons atleast I'd hunt them down like the vermin they are. After all, teleporting yourself silently towards your enemy seems beneficial for an assassin.

I totally agree with you. But there is no real denying it, Dragon Shouts are magic, just a special kind of magic that is unique and universally available. I've never been more excited about a game in my life. But I have to remain calm, because I got very excited about NV, which was ahuge let down to me.

Actually, I've got Todd to make me my own "TES V Skyrim : Daedra's Man in a Van edition" I've got it now, and it is glorious. lol jk

I never really used spellcrafting in Oblivion, as I'm a pure warrior primarily, or secondarily a thief.. If I want to be a mage I usually use preset spells, also with the duel wield system mix and matching spells in it's own shape and form is style of spellcrafting, as it is a new spell creating from two different spells merged together... I know it isn't the same in retrospect but it still allows for mages to actually "craft" their own spells in a way, and on the fly instead of a menu.

I don't think someone that tries to remove something and insert it in other way could be calle a hypocrit. We could speak about irony asumming you are right... really guy, it's a game!

Dragon Shouts are magic, that is correct. But it is magic only usable by a dragonborn or a dragon itself, and is more powerful than any spell a mage can cast on his own strength.

No, I don't think so.
What do you look to gain by blatantly calling Todd Howard a hypocrite? You do realize that this game is made by a team of people, right? Todd Howard is not person calling all the shots bud.

The votes seem to be leaning toward Dragon Shouts.