One no Bound Cuirass is called a spell effect, two they said there would be 85 spells not spell effects in Skyrim. What they meant by spell we don't know yet.

Yeah it only gave you one way that worked in all combat situations once you were good enough. So maybe they should like fix it instead of just removing it.

Oops, I was thinking "before Oblivion" and "since Morrowind" :tongue:.... But, I agree. Though, that is the price that mages pay for their supreme arcane abilities, to be vulnerable physically... :shrug:.

It's a spell effect because of custom spell making. Bound is the effect. See here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Magical_Effects

The rogue-like classes are just quite overpowered :tongue:.

Worst. Post. Ever.

Derpin and Herpin mages shouldn't be able to be mages gaiz! That's OP!

...not amused.

From what I've seen of the Skyrim system (and I think it could be argued that this has been the trend through the past few games), it's not simply that mages are getting "weaker" - it's more accurate to say that the range of their power is getting narrower. At the same time as they've become relatively weaker at the higher skill levels, they've also become relatively stronger at the lower skill levels. And from what little we've seen, mages in Skyrim would appear to be both, and decidedly so.

I just hope that we see a nice level of balance between all three main archetypes... :shrug:

Yes. The thing is all they said was 85 spells in Skyrim. We have no idea how they classified them, just like how there are multiple ways they are listed in Oblivion. So saying there are more spells in Skyrim or Oblivion is jumping the gun quite a bit. We may know of specific things added and removed that we care for, but the true overall number is still unknown.

Bad AI, exploitable mechanics, loop holes made a ton of things overpowered in all the games. Fixing them is great, removing them is not though it may sometimes be the best call you have. I can't think of any place where removing things in a ES game made it better but I will leave the possibility open.

No - just one much more dependable way.

I recently took one of my stealth characters through Redguard Valley Cave, on the way to retrieve the Honorblade. She never left sneak the entire time she was in there - she just went around and one-shotted every ogre, looted the place and left.

Either that sort of power is a bad thing that should be eliminated, in which case it should be eliminated in all cases - not simply in the ones with which one or another person might take issue - or that sort of power is a legitimate reward for the investment of time and effort into the mastering of skills, in which case it should be retained, again in all cases, rather than simply in the ones which one or another person might prefer.

no

Bugs lol. Other than that, quite lost I am.

It looks as if Magic is taking a different approach, but appears to be better and more complex than in Oblivion...

When I think of overpowered I generally tie it to how many hoops you have to jump through. How many hoops do you have to jump through to make a mage/fighter/thief effective, how many more to make them powerful, how many more to make them insanely powerful. IMO most of the class types should not have to jump through many hoops to be effective, generally leveling up and acquiring loot should handle that. If the game is easy at that point, then I think you are overpowered.

But once you start having to jump through extra hoops I am not too concerned with being overpowered since you are making a conscious effort to gain extra power. If those hoops are too easy to jump through that may be an issue. But when people talk about the overpowered mages it is usually a guy who enchanted everything to boost his magic, who stacked weakness effects to have stupidly powerful spells and has a bucket of potions. That is quite a few hoops some easier than others, some are if it weren't for the lame level scaling I'd call an exploit but it is on the high end of hoop jumping IMO, especially considering how long it takes to level skills if you don't game the system on that. I am not sure I'd call that kind of overpowered a big problem.

People complain about them being overpowered but they weren't. Stock mages in the last 2 games were not overpowered they just had the ability to create them that way. Folks who whine about being overpowered simply have no discipline or self control. The stealth class is just as easily unbalanced. Gah. I'm for freedom of choice to play the game the way you want to. The less restriction the better and let the folks who cry about it keep on crying.

This is a nice summing-up of the issue.

Yes - if a player just plays along and sort of falls into being overpowered, that's a problem that needs to be addressed. However, if a player invests a considerable amount of very specifically directed time and effort into the specific goal of becoming overpowered, and ends up overpowered, I see nothing at all wrong with that, and I don't see how the fact that others might take issue with that is even pertinent.

As you say, it's all about how many hoops one has to jump through. If one can only become overpowered through a conscious and deliberate round of hoop-jumping, I don't see the problem. Anybody who doesn't want to become that overpowered is certainly not being forced into jumping through all those hoops.

• You are forgetting that Oblivion introduced Magicka regeneration. That counts quite a bit as making mages more powerful.
  
• How is Fast Travel any less 'powerful' than Mark and Recall? And don't give me that "mage exclusive" garbage, anyone could easily buy some scrolls.
  
• Levitation is removed only because the hardware limits the devs to making cities seperate cells. TES VI may see the return of Levitation because it will likely not be for the current gen of consoles.

English probably isnt his first language. Im sure you speak multiple languages fluently. Even still he has a point. Chameleon, Invisibility and Paralyze spells were ridiculously powerful. The ability to make your own spells made the situation even worse. Immortality would be a more appropriate name for the Illusion school.

Oblivion balance was utter trash. Mages were better Theives than Thieves were. Mages were better Warriors than Warriors were. If you wanted to do something the best in Oblivion the answer was to be a Mage.

Are you Mages getting weaker? I certainly hope so.

Mages were just ridiculously overpowered in the original games. Things like levitate and recall were game-breaking escape mechanics if you care even a shred about balance. svck it up, kids, change isn't a bad thing. Without having one blatantly overpowered option you may be enticed to try something new, or a combination of new things.

I wasn't commenting on his ability to write in English, so you can keep your smart ass comments to yourself.

I also don't play as a mage, so try again. It's just ridiculous to take away a mages awesome spells like paralyze or invisibility. What makes mages cool is their ability to make up for their weaknesses in stealth and strength with magic.

It's like saying "herp derp the Warriors have weapons that cause mega damage, so take away claymores" What's the fun in taking stuff out of a game? Just improve the other aspects if it's overpowered. In the case of levitation I can understand though.

tl;dr, calm down I want a fun game for everyone. Who cares if mages are OP. Don't play as one. It's not a multiplayer game so you never have to play against someone who IS a mage. So long as it doesn't break the game, encourage it to stay in.

Thats a cop-out, I want to play a full mage but I don't wanna breeze through the game as an overpowered demi-god like Morrowind/Oblivion. i want it to be fun and challenging like other games.


I certainly hope 100% chameleon, 100% absorb, 100% reflect, 1 sec paralyze on every spell is toned down or fixed in some way.

FIXED is different than removed isn't it? That's my point. Balance, not removal. It isn't a cop out at all it's my opinion.

Edit: spelling

How does moving the mysticism spells to other schools make mages less powerful? It's true that there are specific powers that they had in earlier games that they won't have in Skyrim, but teleportation and recall are avoidance spells, not spells that allow you to manipulate or damage your opponents. Mana pool, regen, and spellpower are the real determinants of a caster's power.

Recall and Levitate were gamebreaking spells. Thats why they were removed. Mysticism was not not "removed" it was merged. As for crafting spells, maybe overpowered spells were the problem. They are getting weaker, in order to balance it out.