The Outcast are supposed to represent the Original Brotherhood and the Original Brotherhood would not put up with one of their leaders "going native." They would not allow that leader to teach the last Maxson differernt ways of thinking outside of the codex. They would not allow Lyons to sit on something as high tech as Optimus Prime. They would do everything in their power to get the mission back on track. They would not allow Lyons to keep helping people. Maxson in their eyes would be a trader and anyone that sided with in as well.

The Brotherhood would not put up with Lyons and would do what they could to remove him from power. The Outcast would (should) have done everyhting in their power to over throw Lyons. They would have started a coup against him.

Pretty much the Oucast were just in Fallout 3 as fan service and like alot of things intended to make Original fans happy it failed miserably. They should have been included more in the game. A quest to reunite the two peacefully or by force, or a quest to wipe out one or the other. Outcast in their failed coup should have made off with tech need to fix Prime.



And the Outcast would be just as furious at Lyons for giving away tech and not following the Original orders. We are also never told what tech they took that would piss Sarah off so much. Maybe it's just the principal of it.

Weird isn't it, I mean what do the Outcasts have that the Brotherhood don't? Well I it could have been those Alien Power Cells or maybe just the gear in general? I find it scary though that Sarah can just walk up to her Dad and ask for permission to launch an assult, I mean surely when there on duty they are more professional?

Remember the whole ordeal in the Mojave? did Hardin stage a coup against McNamara despite disagreeing with how he ran things? No he didn't he tried to get the Elder legally removed. Its likely Casdin tried something similar but when the Elders back west kept Lyon's in charge he eventually decided to just take his followers and leave. Most of the brotherhood was loyal to Elder Lyon's so they'd probably lose an actually coup, and certainly be labeled traitors back home even if they succeded. So really I don't see the basis for Casdin staging a coup against his friend Owyn. Sometimes simply leaving can be more effective in the long term then risking it all in a fight you would probably lose.

You really have "in-game" basis for belief in how the brotherhood would have handled things. Many of the Elders back west actually supported Elder Lyon's new direction which is why he was left in charge and the division in the mojave chapter didn't lead to civil war.


And just how are the Outcasts suppose to pay Talon Company? with advanced technology? If anything the Outcasts would want to wipe out Talon Company to get at there supply of laser rifles.


What plan to close off Vault 87? Casdin didn't know the super mutants originated from Vault 87 and neither did Elder Lyons. The birth place of the east coast strain was a mystery until the LW comes back from Raven's Rock. Even the littlelamp lighters didn't know the big yellow freaks were born there.


People forget the two groups were once family. Casdin was Lyon's friend. Despite the hurt and betrayal he feels its doubtful there eagar to see one another die, or destory themselves in a war. The outcasts make extensive use of robots which Lyon's lacks. I'm guessing Casdin stole the robots.

Maxson is 10 and was therefore sent to D.C. (confirmed) as early as 2067.

Putting down dirt bag theives is pro, but Lyons probably can not risk his best and brightest getting killed. He gets them killed at a more important place.......... project purity. All besides Sarah, because she is so hard she can not die. lol

That's the thing, I think there's only a 1/10,000 chance for them to cross paths (or something like that). If either of you have it for the computer just spawn them near eachother and they will fight until they win or until they die.

I though it said he was sent there because it would be "safer." Now that I see that the NCR has all but destroyed the western bos, I know what "safer" means.

That is differerent. They did not like the way he was running this but he wasn't really going against the Codex as far as they could tell. Lyons was breaking the Codex left right and center. That is why the Outcast stole a bunch of stuff and left. If they are willing to tell Lyons to stuff it and leave, they would have been willing to attack him and take control. They have proof he is willingly going against the codex. He pretty much pissed on it and through it out the window.



The same way they pay you, with ammo. And it would not be out of place to pay Talon company in tech. Remeber the Original BoS did trade weapons, ammo and tech to outsiders in Fallout. Just not the really good tech.



One part of the Original Mission was to find the source of the New Super Mutant (how they knew about them from over 3000 miles away and from a small location like DC is beyond me) and stop it. It would have been easy to find a super mutant partrol, follow it back to Vault 87 and then destroy the entrances to Vault 87.

Yes, that has been settled as the reason.

Funny because Lyons was sent to DC in 2254 and got to DC in 2255 and Arthur Maxson was not born till 2067. So how was he sent East for safety before he was born?

Arthur Maxson's father Jonathan Maxson might have been the one sent East for safety.

I saw Arthur Maxson the other day, he was drinking beer...

Maybe he was a little baby, wrapped up. And a paladin carried him all the way to the east coast.

Outcast probably knew a war against Eastern BOS would be a waste of resource or end up in defeat, and weren't gonna fight a battle they weren't going to win, so instead they just ignore Eastern BOS and continued their main mission (mission comes first, dealing with traitors not priority). The two simply went their seperate ways, not a war over every little thing. Casdin says Lyons will be put infront of a firing squad.

There would have been a mention of that. If the Brotherhood are having such problems why would they send not one group to the unknown east to fight a new race of Super Mutants, but then go a head and send a second group? All that man power would have been better off back West. Still there is no mention of any reinforcements from the West meeting Lyons.

The Western BoS pretty much cut of contact with Lyons. Why send their last Maxson to someone they are no longer talking to?



It would not be " a little thing." It would be a huge thing. A Brotherhood Elder going native. Abandoning his mission and giving away tech. In their eyes he would be a trader and traders you don't simply ignore. Attacking them while still in the Citadel and taking control would have been the easy way to do it.

The Outcast must have been confident in their strength because they stole from Lyons and took off. If they feared they were not strong enough to go against Lyons they would have done nothing.

I doubt it, if the BoS gets enough resources to send even a small team of BoS soldiers (it would take years to get them ready and longer for them to get there) then Lyons would probably be dead and either Sarah or Arthur Maxson (the wiki says he might be a reference to King Arthur) will have an army big enough to take on all of the NCR in the Mojave wasteland (not all of the NCR, just the large amount in NV).

EDIT-@Styles
And the wiki says that Arthur's father died in a battle against the NCR so that means this is a big inconsistancy, unless his wife went on the expedition with him and like halfway there he heard the BoS were doing bad back west so he turned around and left, with her pregant.

Actually McNamara was going against the Codex that's how he can be removed from power to begin with. But really as the quest demontrates most people in the brotherhood aren't even knowledgeable in the codex anymore. We also don't know enough about the codex to understand how Lyon's violated it. I'd wager the current brotherhood of steel in the west doesn't do things the way the brotherhood did things back in the time of fallout 1. Supposedly the brotherhood was to hoard advanced technology to perserve it for the benefit of humanity. But at some point the organization became more about its own survival and not about benefiting humanity as a whole. One could say Elder Lyon's is remembering the brotherhoods original purpose and expanding on it. There is a huge difference between leaving Elder Lyon's chapter and staging a coup which would likely end in your defeat. Most of the brotherhood was loyal Elder lyon's. Only a minority followed Casdin.



People still travel even if its limited, and tales of super mutants in the east could spread to the west in a few decades. And the super mutants are concentrated mostly in the downtown DC area so it may have been assumed they were spawned there. The high radiation around vault 87 would also make finding the enterances difficult.

Do we know when the Western Elders cut off contact though? It may have only been a few years before the events of Fallout 3, in which case its possible a small expedition was sent east to carry Arthur in order to protect him from the NCR.

Well, "traitor" not trader. Anyways, maybe Outcasts still had friends in Eastern BOS who were just following orders, and only Lyons was responsible? Either way, a war because you're pissed off isn't rational, it's what you have to gain that counts. BOS and Outcasts were rational.

Pretty much, it was their decision for no war, and they made it.

I doubt they would ever have an army large enought to invade the NCR. They can't even win out against Super Mutants, dumb ones no less in DC. The Original BoS don't seem to be holding their own against the NCR and they are born in to the BoS and trained all their lives and have been established in the West since just after the Great War. Lyons BoS has crap tech compaired to the West, small in numbers and his Vet Brotherhood troops get killed only to be replaced by wasteland bumpkins with hunting rifles.

If the way the bos v NCR war in VB would go holds true, the bos started out strong. The high elders may have thought sending a squad to DC to look for epic tech seemed like a good idea at the time, but in VB the NCRs numbers wear at the bos. The high elders at this time may have realised they made a fatal mistake, and got the last of the Maxson line the [censored] out of Dodge.

Not saying it went like VB says, but it is probable.

What I'm saying is it would take about twenty years for another expedition to get to D.C. and by then it would probably be a thriving country (between the possibility of Harold expanding, Project Purity, and Lyons's BoS being the most well equiped faction on th east coast (that we know of) a lot of people would want to be under their rule, and a lot of those people would join their military, and that would make a large army).

There is talk a from Lyons that some more members would have joined the Oucast if I remember right. That is only more proof that the Oucast would have had more support if they made a move against Lyons.

I'll try to spell traitor right from now on lol.



The Mojave Chapter were not sure about the legal issues and need proof that McNamara was really going against the Codex. Lyons clear as day was going against the Codex. You don't to be a codex expert to see that. The Outcast clearly saw he was going against the mission and the Codex.

He means in many years to come, arthur would probally be middle-aged and sarah an old lady.

In many decades the NCR could be ten times the size they are now and be expanding into DC. That is far more likely then Lyons BoS every getting that powerful.

I can t see Lyons bos leaving DC to fight NCR for tech if it was 1,000 years down the road. Lyons went againt the codex because it is the right thing for all bos to do. The western bos will die because of their stupid codex. No Lyons bos are going to try to bail out the stupid western bos. They would be killed anyway, and there is no point.


NCR will just grow over time. Lyons bos will never really be a match for NCR. Again even if they became a match for them, they do not have the same ideas as the western bos, so why risk getting wiped out?

Bos that went against the codex will end up being the only bos left. The codex will be a boogyman only mentioned to scare children. lol