Apparently his mother sent him east to protect him from internal conflicts in the west.


Where is Lyon's he giving away tech? He gives away water but is quick to secure the purifier himself.


Or Casdin knew Elder Lyon' wouldn't go to war over it. Fighting Casdin doesn't help Elder Lyon', and losing most or all of his men in a coup wouldn't help Casdin.


In the west vet brotherhood troops die and get replaced by nothing, as it takes two decades to breed and train a replcement. Wasteland bumpkins can be trained into killing machines ten times faster then you could breed them up naturally. Elder Lyon's was a small detatchment sent to DC with whatever technology the western BoS could afford to lose.(probably due to the last expedition east vanishing.) However to say he has crap tech is wrong in the end as he ends up with a rather sizable cache of Enclave technology making his tech actually superior to what they have out west. The image I get from New Vegas is the brotherhood in the west is dying. Veronica is rather convinced there doomed and even McNamara admits she's probably right that they'll die out if they don't change there ways.


He wouldn't and I don't see the NCR marching an army across six or seven states to reach DC either. Perhaps in another 150 years the NCR will do battle with the New Republic of Columbia. Or they would simply unite into one nation.
(D.C=District of Columbia)

If you read (in the paranthesis) you would've seen I said all of the NCR in the Mojave Wasteland...

I saw it but I doubt NCR would stay in the Mojave for long. Give them decades and they could control most of Central North America.

Lord Vukodlak, you do have a point that a bumpkin is better then nothing.

I still feel that the Outcast could have has a coup against Lyons. "When a traitor strikes he strikes with the force of a Legion" In this cause Casdin would be the traitor in the sense he his betraying Lyons. Coups can be bloodless. Very least he would have crippled Lyons and taken more of his mean on to his side, to come back and fight another day. Lyons is sitting great pre-war tech. Has the last Maxson and is a traitor to the Brotherhood. All more then enough reason to have a coup/go to war againt Lyons.

Lyons does give out tech as in he hands it out to "new recruits." He is using his tech to help people rather then the Original mission of finding tech to help the Brotherhood. Logical reason for sending Lyons east in the first place would be to find new tech to help the Western BoS in the case BoS and NCR got to war and since they did end up going to war.

The Outcast can also be using the Eastern BOS to fight its enemies, and bring order and do other stuff that makes the Outcasts job easier for them. That's why no fighting for the time being.

Why let them fight their enemies, when they could have just removed Lyons and those most loyal to him in one night and just take control of the DC BoS themselves?

The BoS need the tech in DC to help against NCR. They don't have time to piss away waiting for Lyons to be a white knight, do gooder to a bunch of DC savages. The BoS are being threatened by the NCR and need all the advantages they can get. Lyons clearly does not give a flying crap. The Outcast would have been the ones to try and get the mission back on track to save the BoS from being over run by NCR.

If they killed Lyons one night, that chapter of the bos would have been destroyed on that night. Lyons let them leave, and anyone else who wants to leave can. Why start a huge war there?

Sarah and Lyons pride don t sleep....... The would have heard laser rifles going off and it would have been on like Donkey Kong.

Lyons had way too many people on his side to quietly kill in one night.

Killing the commander is bad, and they would have been killed. They can t even get along with themselves. Just leaving and stealing some equipment was the smartest move they could have made.

It takes cunning and patience to get enough support to perform a successful take over. These are two qualities that were not evident with the bos outcasts.

^ exactly

And maybe the Outcast thought some of what Eastern BOS doing was necessary for the wasteland and humanity, they just wanted no part of it and were irked that they detracted from the main Brotherhood. So they just went their seperate ways, no war.

The Outcast collected tech for the purpose of helping humanity that way, that was all. Eastern BOS just chose to help humanity more directly.

In either case, Lyons was the traitor, not the members of the BOS just following orders.

Why would it destroy that chapter? Lyons himself admits that others are thinking about going out an joining the Outcast. All Casdin had to do was remove Lyons and explain to the others why he did it. More then half of the Brotherhood IMO would have sided with Casdin and made him the new Leader.

It would not have been a huge war. It would have just been a change in leadership in one night. It could have been done relatively bloodless. Lyons is old, they could have made it look like a heart attack or something. Or simply shot him and Sarah. Sure others would fight back but in the end many of them would have realised that Lyons was wrong in what he was doing. Lyons had to offset the numbers that left to join the Outcast with wastelanders. Before that ever happened most of the BoS at the Citadel would have probably been all BoS born and raised.

Remember that the BoS back West need the tech from DC and they need it to defend against possible NCR attack. They did end up going to war. Lyons does not care about the BoS back west and that makes hom a traitor. Casdin would have just reminded the rest of the BoS why they were in DC for the first place. To help save the Brotherhood!

Also I don' like the term "Eastern Bos" that emplys they are in control of the East Coast. They only control DC. Lyons BoS or DC BoS would be better IMO.

Well the BOS (all of them West East and Outcasts, EXCEPT the Midwestern one) was an organization to improve humanity in their own ways (collecting tech, etc). They weren't Reavers who worshipped technology, but just need it to help humanity. They are probably more loyal to the future of humanity than their organization, since their own organization is about helping humanity. Which was why Lyons and his followers in Eastern Brotherhood started doing what they did, Outcast just had a disagreement on tactics..

No they weren't, they were dedicated to take technology that humanity wasn't ready for (Laser Rifles, etc.)... atleast at first. Then (over the generations) all they were doing was taking all of the good technology for themselves.

You have to explain and gather a certain amount of support first, then make the move. If you kill, most peoples reaction would be "That [censored] killed our elder!!! -.....- There would be no explaining, because he didn t convince enough people before the killing. Bos is weird, but its not like "I killed the king so NOW I AM KING" weird. Its military based, and if you kill the commander chances are you will receive an overdose of lead or laser in fairly short order. They needed the majority 100% behind him. Not kind of understanding him, but 100% behind him, and the guy didn t do it.


Killing Lyons would have been a shocker, and a major internal war would have occured immediately. Most would have died IMO....

So what is the conclusion here, as it seems the same stuff is being repeated. It seems that Lyon's BoS sees them as "outcasts" so they are no longer part of the brotherhood. But Casdin figures when he returns to the west coast their actions will be vindicated and Lyons will be the one in trouble, even though he will stick to the east coast probally.

Lol, hit the post button one too many times...

The Original Brotherhood had never had goals to help improve humanity, unless you count keeping the good tech away from them by any means. The Midwestern Brotherhood were the only Brotherhood that truly went out of their way to make life better for people. They educated people in tech, farming and medical knowledge. They provided protection to settlements under their control. They set out to form a government if you will in the terriotries they took over. Not even Lyons does that.

Depending on how you play the MWBoS even let mutations into their ranks. Lyons still shoots ghouls on sight.

Yeah, Id say this is it, but when they get to the west coast they will be killed by NCR on sight. As they are gasping for breath their last words will be "[censored] I should have stuck with Lyons the codex is a curse."

The Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY

I'm not sure about this, so I'll ask. How long did it take the MW BoS to set-up and start helping and taking control?

Lyon's has been there for about 15-20 years. That isn't a long time to really set up, especially with constant super-mutant threats and raiders causing havoc. Then the Enclave showing up. That is why I would like another game to explain some stuff after Fallout 3.

The Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel managed to build and army and make it all the way to Colorado Spring from Chicago in just a year or two. They were in the Chicago area presumably for years before that. The events of Tactics start in the year 2191

They are proof of what the Brotherhood can do if they actively recuited people of the wasteland, gave them education, supplies and tech. Trained them and formed and army. They wanted to go back to the Original BoS and say "See we were right."

This is going by one ghoul who is within shouting distance of them for the whole game vs my 2400 hrs of gameplay.
In a game that starts with

"This is where you were born. This is where you will die, because in vault 101 no one ever enters and no one ever leaves."

I played this one, and I know there are lies told, mis-representations of the facts, and pure ignorance to the facts.

The outcasts were probably doing it before they left.

They are shot at by BoS. The BoS are more focused on the Super Mutants. They don't go out of their way to hunt them down and kill them but if they came across them they would. It is why all the ghouls are living in Underworld. Super Mutants leave them alone. The Brotherhood don't.

If it was just the Outcast doing it, the ghouls in Underworld would have long ago figured out they can walk freely around the Mall, but they don't.

I agree, no other ghoul mentions anything about the guys in power armor attacking them, only that one lady.

If it was just the Outcast doing it, the ghouls in Underworld would have long ago figured out they can walk freely around the Mall, but they don't.

Why would she have any reason to lie about such a thing?

What is the matter? Are you guys afraid of Lyons having some blood on his clean White Knight Hero Image?

Lyons's BoS shoot ghouls on sight, I like them having bad aspects and killing all of the ghouls they see is pretty bad.

If they were to form a country (which is probable) than it would have that aspect about them (which could lead to inner and outer conflict).

The MWBOS wanted to annex everything and everyone, more like a nation and less a non-profit organization. The original BOS has a motive for securing tech, not just for kicks and giggles. They wanted to preserve it, and use it to help humanity in the long run, right?

No.
They wanted to keep it away from humanity because they felt they were not mature enough to use it properly (example: the Great War) where are you getting the idea that they're taking the best tech to help people in the long run when they're at war with the NCR because they want the NCR's tech?