Outcasts are still Western BOS, right? It's the Eastern BOS that splitted. Wonder why the Outcasts are the ones who changed their name.

Because Lyon's BoS still considers themsleves to be the BoS except they abandon their tech hording mission and now help people.

The Outcasts just wanted to hoard the tech and GTFO but Lyons said no so they left, Lyons said they were Outcasts and they wore the name with pride.

Can you please stop making topics whenever you think of something? And a better place to ask questions than the fourms is the Vault.

yeah the outcasts are pretty much the true brotherhood. because like sebor said "lyons" brotherhood stopped solely going after tech, also im pretty sure that lyons brotherhood has been abandoned by the western brotherhood for not going after tech which is why they turned toward training conscripts.

Topics are legit. Anyways, hoarding tech was original Western BOS mission, Outcasts are just continuing it. So Outcasts are still Western BOS, right? Not seperate faction.

Well they do the same thing but when the Outcastds left Lyons BoS was still the legitament BoS in the CW so they just kept the name and stuff.

From Vault-

"Although Lyons and the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel view the Outcasts as traitors, they do not consider themselves as such. In their eyes, they remain the true Brotherhood of Steel, and it is Lyons who has deserted the principles the Brotherhood stands for. The Outcasts believe that their actions will be vindicated when they return to the primary Brotherhood on the West Coast. Until that day, they continue to uphold the Brotherhood’s mission to reclaim advanced technology, exploring areas such as the Virtual Strategic Simulations facility in an effort to uncover new forms of pre-War tech."

And there are quotes in game (from Casdin) that supports this.

I didn't say it was wrong but they abandon Lyons for abandonign the BoS's mission in DC, but they behave and have the same views as the Western BoS.

So you think Outcasts are same as Western BOS? Not seperate faction.

It's complicated, I think they're after the same thing and the Outcasts want the WBoS to find out what Lyons is doing because they think they will get punished (if the WBoS manages to get even one person there Lyons and his followers will be kicked out of the WBoS and the Outcasts will be brought back in).

One of the outcasts says if they can contact wbos that they want them to do something about lyons brotherhood, but lyons has more troops and the outcasts base is pathetic, and lots are dtying in the wasteland since they wont actually bring new people in, so the outcasts are basically screwed, do they expect to get reinforcements, or the inquisition to show up and get lyons, not likely going to happen, the outcasts will die off, even if you read some of their records they are worried about the raiders expansion in the area of their fort.

Well they have power armor and good guns so they can't be that bad off.

The Outcast are pretty much the Original western BoS. Only they did not try to do something about Lyons. They did not try to remove him from power. Seems like an odd thing for them to do, just getting up and leaving Lyons. I would have liked the story to be different. Have the two sides battle it out. Veronica in Fallout New Vegas talks about one chapter having a small civil war. If she was talking about Lyons and the Outcast, I never saw anything close to a Civil War. The Oucast just stole a bunch of Lyons stuff and walked out.

Anyways, they are supposed to be like the Western Brotherhood.

They'll kill eachother on sight (but that almost never happens without console commands)

That's not how organisations work, IIRC, the Western Brotherhood never fully excommunicated Lyon's any way did they? They just said don't expect help - even though somebody sent that kid over at least like 10 years after Lyon's got to D.C. <_<. So I would say that, ironically, that Lyon's Brotherhood is still considered Brotherhood by the West but given that there is no communication between the Outcasts and the West then they haven't been confirmed or told by the High Elders that they are still Brotherhood; by leaving the legitimate Brotherhood they became a seperate organisation. Being apart of an organisation is more than just a shared goal, if the leaders of one organisation haven't confirmed that you are indeed still apart of it then they are not, just like how Raiders aren't a group but a generic title to countless gangs of looters and villians.

Now that you mention the kid arriving, if that's true. Could that mean that the brotherhood is in pretty bad shape, so they sent him to DC, thinking the Brotherhood was safer there.

IIRC he was sent there very young by his family because of Western troubles and raving Elder's, away from people like Elijah. Though I see their point, I mean Christ, bad enough that the BoS is a military junta but it was seemingly also a heriditary dictatorship with each Maxson taking charge just because.

I don't really remember his conversation, but he has quite a few talk options. Maybe it is a clue to future Fallout....stuff

I have never seen the Outcast and Lyons BoS attack one another.

The plot should have been that the two sides went to war with one another. Outcast tried to take the Maxson kid but failed but did manage to steal parts from Optimus Prime. A quest should have been give to get those parts. Or help the Enclave boot out Lyons.

I don'tt think I have ever seen them cross paths. The only time they might, is with broken steel and the paladins protect the caravns, otherwise I don't know.

The truth is The Elders back west left Lyon's in place despite knowing the new course of action he was taking. They simply said if he wished to follow his own agenda he'd have to do so alone. The outcasts left Lyon's without permission from the Elders back west so they are technically traitors. If they went back to California they could be executed for treason. However as the BoS in California is still licking its wounds from its war with the NCR they'd probably welcome the extra manpower. The Outcasts story is kinda sad they left Lyon's to persue the true mission as they saw it to acquire advanced technology. And what happens a couple years later? Elder Lyon's chapter wins a war with the Enclave capturing a hoard of advanced technology and has control the largest most powerful water purifier in the entire world.


Apparently the brotherhood was suffering internal political conflicts and his mother thought he'd be safer on the otherside of the country. We also don't know when the western brotherhood severed support for Elder Lyon's group. And perhaps Lyon's decision to help the people of the capital wasteland is what caused the political strife to begin with.


Well they can possibly meet one another out in the wastes but its rare, it happens more often after project purity is activated and brotherhood water caravans start roaming in outcast territory. If you wish to really test this find an outcast patrol then dismiss Paladin Cross from the party you should see some action. Veronica does call it a small civil war which could describe the situation they don't actively go after one another but do go toe to toe if they ever meet.


Given that the outcasts are in the wasteland looking to hoard technology and Lyon's had rededicated his mission to a more noble purpose. It be fairly oneside, Lyon's would have allies to fallback on The Outcasts by their nature would have no one to turn to for help. Having to retrieve parts for Liberty Prime that the outcasts stole would certainly be interesting.

No.

Although the Outcasts may be truer to the ideals, they are not members of the brotherhood.

Although there has been little communication between east and West, Lyons hasn't been exiled from the BOS or stripped of rank. Until or unless he is exiled, replaced, or otherwise according to the laws of the BOS, he is the highest ranking member of the entire BOS organisation in the region.

He has, presumably in line with the laws of the BOS has exiled the outcasts, and as such they are no longer members the BOS period - until or unless the High Elder, council of elders, or whatever the proper authority to hear an appeal is - presuming there is one.

I think the western bos cut Lyons off for going against the codex

This does not automatically mean the western bos (if there is one) would condone their actions of stealing and going out on their own.

They still veiw Lyons as an elder of the bos, so what the Outcasts did may not sit well with the high elders.


Im going out on a limb and say yes they are still bos, but it might not really be that cut and dry.

I am talking about before the Oucast went their own way. When Lyons started trying to help people over their original mission. The leaders of the Outcast should have tried a coup. Attack those most loyal to Lyons and take control of the Citadel and Optimus Prime themselves. They did not do that. Insted they gathered up what tech they could carry and buggered off in the night. I can't see Western Brotherhood doing that. I see a coup and blood shed. Attempts on Lyon's life. Attacks on the Citadel after their defeat. Outcast doing what they can to take the Maxson kid back, from Lyons.

I can see the Outcast hiring mercs like Talon Company to attack Lyons and his patrols.

Outcast should have also just went along with the Original plan of just closing off Vault 87, but I guess they abandoned that plan because it was making Lyons suffer trying to stop the mutants.

What's the point of Outcast fighting Eastern BOS? Desertion? It's like the two went their seperate ways and stay out of each other's way.

Sarah Lyons askes daddy on many occasions to attack the Outcasts, because they stole a lot of equipment. Owen Lyons always denies her request. If Sarah was in charge they would attack the Outcasts without a doubt. She seems pretty furious about it...