First off, apologies for pretty-much butchering the spelling of 'Aureon'-- I'm not at my Oblivion PC, so can't check, and can't seem to find the spelling right now. What I'm talking about are the creatures who support Umaril in the Knights of the Nine Add-on for Oblivion.

What I was wondering was, are these creatures actually Ayleids, in the same way that Martin Septim is an Imperial (i.e., they are actually the members of the Ayleid Race)? Or are they just Ayleids who are loyal to Umaril (in the way that there is no Race called 'Blades', but Blades can be of any Race and still be a 'Blade'; so 'Aureon' would not be a name for a Race of Ayleid, but just Umaril's minions)? I ask because they obviously support Umaril, who is half Ayleid, but (as I understood it) the Ayleids are just Elves, so wouldn't his minions just be called 'Ayleids'?

An explanation/answer of this would be much appreciated; thanks in advance

They are not ayleids. The ayleids allied with Meridia who supplied the Aurorans, who are daedra, and since Umaril was the mixture of ayleid and daedra, he controlled them on nirn.

Aurorans are not ayleids... they're daedra....

Thanks, that helps the issue

One last, partly associated question, what do Ayleids actually look like then? I'm not up on the Lore too-much, but I know one of Oblivion's loading screens says they were 'Heartland High Elves' (or something similar)-- so would they just look relatively like normal High Elves?

The high elves like to practice selective breeding to maintain the purity of their blood, and most closely resemble their ancient ancestors, the aldmeri, and because of this practice it is same to assume that yes the ayleids would look a lot like high elves.

Thanks, that should be all I needed to know

Already been answered but:

Aurorans - not Ayleids. Not Elves. Daedra. Umaril is part Ayleid, part Daedra and assumed the form of an oversized Auroran.

Ayleid appearance - indistinguishable from High Elves. Probably taller and more fair complexioned because they like to maintain racial purity.

edit: A quick thought - it is a bit strange that Umaril, who is a half breed himself, is obsessed with racial purity and wants to re establish the Ayleid Empire, probably through a form of Eugenics. This is comparable to the real life example of Adolf Hitler who believed in the Aryan race, and yet he himself was of "impure" blood by his own flawed standards.

Indeed it's seen in many traits of lunatics.

Umaril, Hitler and also the Skeksis seems to have a bit of an obsession of purity while themselves are only half what they used to be.

In the one physical description of an Ayleid prior to Oblivion, they are darker than modern Altmer (as the Altmer have had much longer to practice their eugenics, while the Ayleid remnant had to go into hiding):

Umaril was never anywhere near pure to begin with is the most hilarious thing of all. He's tri racial at least, if not more.

His father was some vague deity of a previous Kalpa. It's not stated if this deity was related to the Aedra or even a Divine himself. His mother was Ayleid or part Ayleid..and then he was adopted by Meridia who made him part Daedra. He has as rich a heritage as Jagar Tharn himself.

Interestingly enough, a lot of the main villains of these games seem to be of mixed lineage. Mankar Camaron for instance is another prime example. I'm sure Bethesda didn't do this on purpose but as it stands these games sort of promote multi racial mixing as being something that produces villains...I can't seem to recall a heroic NPC who was said to be of mixed descent. I hope I'm wrong about that. They wouldn't purposely promote that kind of attitude about multiracial people but it comes across that way.


edit: There's something about that pre-Oblivion Ayleid description, though. This Wild Elf appeared long enough after the collapse of the Ayleid Empire that the old instilled values of racial purity had probably faded away. Indeed many Ayleids had long integrated into various elven societies, including those of Bosmer, Dunmer, Altmer and even Bretons. They probably didn't practice selective breeding on purpose any more at all, although the tribal ones in Cyrodill would have little opportunity to date outside their race. Only Umaril and possible Umbacano the Collector held onto these ancient Ayleid ideals.

Wow, slow down folks. Slow down. Let me talk to Godwin for a minute here.

The Merish perspective is not about racial purity, that's only one way towards the end of retaining and regaining their lost divine status. Umaril was half divine, he had the blood of an Ada, which means that in Summerset the woman would throw themselves at him to have his quarterly divine babies, if Altmer did such rash things that is.

The Grey Prince, even though he goes suicidal at finding out his father was a vampire.

The descendants of the Dunmer empress Katariah are not in any way villainous or ignoble; in fact the Elder Council's discrimination aganst the Lariats proved disastrous.

Grahh, I went and hunted down that quote and was so psyched to wip it out and go on a rant about how Oblivion ruined Ayleid lore, but you beat me to it, so owned me I guess...




I'm going to agree with Prowler for once here- you need to calm yourself.

You have two examples of villainous mutts (one of which is half god, which hardly qualifies) and you use it to make such a claim? I really don't see that at all. For one, the player character's race is always unknown, and all of them can easily be mutts. Also, the obvious negativity surrounding the Altmer and Nibenese's ideas of eugenics and racism in-game seem to convey quite the opposite.

The reason why the Ayleids are darker is because Cyordill (at the time) was a tropical climate. Thus, more sunlight, and thus the Aylieds either needed to breed darker or just tanned. The civilized ones could be pale and still survive using better clothing, and having better shelter, but the primitive ones by neccesity needed to be darker, especially since they ran around without any clothing on. However, seeing as both the jungle and the very existence of "wild elves" seemed to be retconned away, this point is moot.

T

Bretons. Just saying.

In the final mission of the Thieves Guild quest line, after you fire the Arrow of Extrication into the lock-thing, two Ayleid Guardians come to life and attack you. One male and one female, I believe. Are these accurate as far as appearance?

Well... hard to say really.
We dont see much of their face or body, but I dont think it's any more then you'll see a similarity to Altmers and Chimer and so on.

I'm always pretty calm, actually... I was just making some observations, which as I said are entirely superficial.

I believe in one of the larger Ayleid ruins there is a Lich who is named king of that location. So I assume the Ayleids were tall, slim, and wore no underpants.

You mean The King of Miscarand(sp)? IIRC he just used a generic Lich model.

No wonder the prim and proper Cyrodiils reviled them......