They are both evil, Vampires must attack humans to survive and for humans to survive they have to attack Vampires.

At best the vampires are parasitic murderers led by a psychotic homicidal maniac with delusions of godhood whose actions threaten the exsistance of all life on Nirn. I would say drastic actions are called for.

But wolves weren't created by an (arguably) evil Daedric Prince for the sole purpose of being evil. Just sayin'

so humanity fighting against a predator (albeit in this case a fictional one that hopefully never evolves) is unnatural to you? seems natural to me its known as a survival instinct you should look at both sides of the coin before you flip it.

Vampires were not created to be evil either, they were created to mock kyne or some deity of natural order.

My sides! They're moving on their own!

This is a... Difficult question to answer to say the least. I have read over the entire article and everybody's posts in response and I will have to say, a lot of people have their heads in the right place. I think it all comes down to the intention and what is at heart to determine the morality.

If we look to Isran, his methods are crude, he might be a little fanatical, but what is at his heart is the protection of living beings from what he sees as a grave threat. His heart is in the right place in that regard, but he also fails to note that Vampires are sentient beings that are capable of reason and logic. Not all vampires should just be hated or killed, but those who are a threat it is only natural to want to eliminate.

Lord Harkon does what he thinks will deliver Vampires into their "rightful place" as great lords over the mortal races. His thoughts are of his own people but not for preservation. He seeks dominance, as a true follower of Molag Bal would seek. I see this as a bit of an evil act... To offer clarity, I will refer to a story I have in a DnD campaign as to how an act of dominance can be a good act or (as in Lord Harkon's place) an evil act.

I made a DnD setting where there was a nation ruled by a powerful and ancient vampire named Umbra Nemuritor. When he received the gift, he used it to conquer the island nation and establish vampires as the ruling class and mortals as slaves beneath them. Now then, that sounds evil, does it not? The conquering of an entire nation, the enslaving of an entire race, and the establishment of himself as the God-King of the nation. However, if you look inside his heart and mind and see why he did it, the issue becomes a little less black and white. He knew that for so long as Vampires existed, they would be hunted for what they are. He did not want to see his fellows killed simply for existing as what they were, and he had tried negotiations. These negotiations fell through when an attempt on his life was made. He realized the only way for Vampires to live free of fear was for them to become the rulers. Since he knew mortals would not trust him and his kind, he did not trust the mortals with any power. Once Vampires reached a place of dominance in having their own powerful nation, he stopped his conquests and allowed negotiations to begin with the neighboring nations (governed by living beings). Because his kind was in a place of power, the other nations were forced to accept their existence and not hunt them. Lord Nemuritor committed evil for the sake of what was, from the point of view of the vampires, the greater good.

Just my thoughts, sorry for using a non TES source to debate here.

I agree there, Harkon was evil and short sighted when it came to his plans, he wanted the sun blotted out so vampires can feed unhindered however, vigils and other vampire hunters would know that this would allow vampires free reign on the world and so the vampire hunters would then go out and actively exterminate them.... probably in more numbers and with better tactics than ever before (due to the dire situation).

Harkon really didn't think through the consequences of his actions. In a world where Vampires achieved such power but not complete dominance, they would have been hunted without mercy. Few things are more powerful than the general populace when it is afraid. Fear is the most powerful weapon of all.

Vampires are the creation of the inherently evil prince Molag Bal. They are not good nor are they a race like other people. They also feed on people and murder them. How are they natural?

The dawnguard aren't eliminating a whole race because vampires aren't their own race or species; they are normal people who have been cursed/infected with an evil blight created by Molag Bal. Also, Isran isn't as fanatical as some may think as he was able to control his rage and let Serana live to help his cause, even though he originally wanted her dead.

The living races murder as well, and Vampires are sentient beings. They can choose to murder, they can choose to enslave and feed, or they can choose to feed off of those who are a menace to society (such as bandits and the like). It is unfair to call an entire group of sentient beings evil because of the actions of some, even if it is the majority. We have already seen examples of "good" vampires in this thread. They are not all evil, but genocide is undoubtedly evil.

A Daedric Prince can not be evil since they exist on a higher plane of existence, he can't help but be what IT is (Daedric Princes also don't have a set gender).

The Lord of corruption and [censored]

All Daedric Princes exist only to be what they are intended to be.

The Vampires disease changes the hosts body almost completly so it can continue to "live" without a heartbeat and be able to survive only on blood so I'd say that makes Vampires a race, granted Vampires can come from all other races but the disease forces them all to be changed almost entirely even their outward appearance changes.

Vampires don't murder when they feed unless they are driven away by hunters and are starved of blood which causes them to go insane, they have logic and can reason when not starved, so you could argue its the hunters that cause Vampires to kill though granted with all races there are good and evil people

Harkon being evil..and Serana being good..granted Serana admittedly does at every turn want to bite you and turn you into a Vampire to spend all eternity with her or whatever.

They could also choose to cure themselves of their vampirism.

If Vampires were left alone and were given equal rights under the laws of the Empire, they might not be so desperate to cut out their own spheres of dominance. Some would still fall to evil, as some living do, but many more can commit evil out of desperation. In a sense, that is the position the Dawnguard is in, one of desperation. Consequently, they turn to a great evil, genocide.

You have to see it from their perspective though, Vampirism grants you immortality, a lot of people want that and once obtained they do NOT want to get rid of it, also Vampirism gives you super strength/agility and powers (Lore wise..in-game you don't get super strength and speed sadly unless you RP that way, just buffs to sneak and illusion and a couple other helpful things)

That is the main reason some Vampires don't want to cure it.

But the want of immortality is not more important then the right to life of many of the victims of vampire attacks. They kill to sustain their selfish desire for immortality. And its weird, because vampires don't actually have to kill people to feed on them. But still they do it anyways, and many take pleasure in it.

That's evil.....period.

Evil and good people are present in all races, most Vampires if they aren't starved because of hunters chasing them off nonstop, they will just feed and move on.

Doing what you have to do to survive and not go insane isn't evil in my opinion.

That is like saying just because a redguard bandit kills a innocent noble, that the whole Redguard race must be evil.

Uh they're vampires there isn't much good about them, attacking cities, try to block sun, following Harkons every whim so they aren't after doing much good about them, Serana seem less evil but i could be wrong.

Harkon IS the strongest Vampire in Skyrim ya' know being the leader of the dominant Vampire clan in Skyrim, I doubt the other vampires could really survive an encounter against him if they chose not to serve him and do what he says and going off the radiant quests, any starved Vampire that starts trouble the Volkihar vampires act sort of like policeman and end the possible attack on towns by thin-blood master vampires, so after a certain event they start showing their good qualities.

Seems more like the clanless thin-blood vampires are the ones that are killing the people they feed on because they are starved.

The Dawnguard seem to be killing more innocent people in my game than the vampires..lol

Harkon is not just the leader, he and his family are the progenitors of the volkihar clan. they are pure-blooded vampires that created directly by Molag bal himself, all the other vampires seen throughout the game are a couple of generations down the vampiric bloodline. The court may be more pure of course.

Vampires do not need to kill but are sometimes forced to since that have to live in caves where no human would be and so they have to catch and keep what they find and then slowly drain it. If a vampire lived in town peacefully, no one would know about its feeding habits because people would be blissfully unaware in their sleep. It's like real life, you do not feel the bite of bed bugs when you sleep.
Vampires can be evil though, no question about that. Dawnguard are a little overzealous which is not a good thing but they are trying to stop the vampire attacks.



That is half-true, while they are beyond good and evil, some are more malevolent than others and actually enjoy it, in our view they are evil but they do not have a concept of morality.

I dont think Vampires in Skyrim NEED to feed on Human's as much as the Volkihar make out, Serana has went for years without a drop of blood, and shes fine with it
I think any vampire that tries to murder for his own gain can be considered 'evil'

She was asleep though and probably a mystical one since vampires go insane if they do not feed in awhile.

Well technically when you set her free, you know the spike that stabs your hand?

The blood from the wound goes into the tomb and feeds her..which probably explains why shes infatuated with the dragonborn ya' know her first taste of blood in 4000+ years which also leads to her wanting to turn you into a vampire at every turn, since in her mind Vampirism is the highest gift and honor its the only way she can effectively repay you..or she just wants to spend eternity with you because she loves you, up to the player to decide that. =P

That's a very good point, i think the spiking of the hand went over my head at that point of the story O_o