Are the enclave the good guys?

Brotherood of steel: Ultimate aim, gather technology and use it.
Enclave: restore the United states.

The leaders

Enclave: President Eden: mostly a good leader but flawed in his thinking with regards the FEV.
Autumn as a second in command who appears to genuinly want to restore order.

BoS: Lyons: branded a renegade for wanting to help the people of the waste. once he is gone who will replace him.
other than his daughter, none of the other BoS seem to interested in the plight of the wastelanders.
Also once the purifier is secured whats to stop the rest of the BoS swooping in?

True the Enclave did have to use a large number of nasty methods to secure their objectives but war...war is hell.

further consider the death of your father.
if he had input the code the water would have been activated but autumn would not have put the modified FEV in would he?
your father and him were fighting for the same thing.

Not this again

This is getting redundant

This is getting tedious

I am going to be charitable and assume you must of slept through the racket

I'm sorry you missed the fun

Eden wants to kill all non-Enclave people, Autumn wants to rule them. They still regard them as filthy mutants not worthy of being considered human. And the "United States" they want to restore is to consist of only themselves. It's like saying that Nazis were the good guys because their ultimate aim was to restore the might of the German Reich.

The Enclave were always intended to be evil... there is no hidden meaning behind their motives. They're not even remotely close to being good guys.

Just like Ausir said. In FO2 image of Enclave was harsh and sarcastic, too bad Beth (or writer of main storyline) took them too serious and plainly copy-pasted them with their goals and such from previous game.

Yeah.

Why not create an enemy with reasoning such as the Master? I actually sympathized with him, and thought he was right on everything except forcing the FEV on others. If super mutants weren't sterile they would be far more capable being than us. I think I would have chosen to become one (in fact I did but the game ended).

Only if you believe that mass murdering the surviving victims of your ancestors' world destruction is good.

While they aims of the Enclave are good, they're following the view of "The ends justify the means." For them, it's easier for them to kill off most wastelanders, ghouls, and super mutants than to try and properly govern them.

What's easier? Trying to force people to suddenly adopt a new way of life that they've never experenced before, or just shooting 'em?

Why should the majority (the mainland survivors) be required to conform to the minority?

What they Enclave is doing is trying to make the Wasteland a better place.

Unfortuantly, this means no mutations- from Super-Mutant level to sixth-toe level. And since at least 90% of the wasteland have some mutations, they've gotta go.

That last part is why I will not support the Enclave as-is.

Edens a [censored], but Autumn isnt. As much as I hate to say it, hes the good-guy (to an extent)

He dosnt want to kill anyone. He just wants the purifier to get the trust of the waste-land. But he still likes all the people.

However, Eden wants everyone with the slightest bit of mutation in them to die.

The closest you'll get to a "good guy" in Fallout, is the NCR.

I agree with the above post who mentioned the Master/Richard Grey.

Also, is President dike Richardson as evil as Eden and Autumn?

The Enclave always reminded me of Nazis because of their beliefs.

Uh, where do you Autumn fans get this stuff, anyway? He never says anything about what he wants. The only evidence that he's not as bad as Eden is from Eden's dialogue stating Autumn is clouded by his humanity. That doesn't mean he's good or that he doesn't want to eradicate the people of the wasteland. Maybe he just doesn't want to take the chance that the FEV will mutate and kill the Enclave as well.

If I remember correctly, didn't Autumn shoot one of the female scientists in the purifier just to get James to turn over the codes. I hardly think that makes him a nice guy. I was thinking of comparing Autumn to Erwin Rommel, but I can't seem to remember incidents when Rommel shot a hostage, so I will have to say that Autumn is worse. There are no redeeming qualities to the Enclave. They are a self-serving group that attempts to secure its "rightful" place in the ruling of the country through use of deadly force when it wouldn't be required in many situations. How many wastelanders would turn down the opportunity to jump behind an organization that wants to restore law and order to the wastes, has advanced technology, and has a ton of firepower. The Enclave would have a chance at restoring the USA if they would lower their standards and allow humans to join them.

We've been over this

The genetic compliance protocols which call for ghouls to be rounded up and burned alive could not of been implemented with Autumn's participation

Hes definition of mutation just isn't as liberal as Eden's



He keeps a journal on his terminal supposedly, I'll have to check that on the next deinfestation of Raven Rock

totall accept all the above points.
but I a point I was trying to make is that the BoS who we are forced down a linear path to believe are the good guys are to an extent just a lesser evil

1) Abandoning Project Purity initially because of lack of result.
2) dislike of wastelanders seeing them as secondary citizens
3) demonstration that if they dislike a place they will cleanse it (a la the pitt)
do you think that they only killed the bad guys there an there were no innocent casualities.
4) In Broken steel again shooting innocents rather than try diplomacy.

In a world such as fallout 3 there is no real good and evil just nasty decisions to survive.
The enclave appear to have a long term plan for the reestablishment of humanity
the BoS do not.

I shoot, loot, and scoot.

Of course if you're raised to believe you're right and that all other ideals are wrong, then you are right. Now that you know you're right, anyone who challenges you is challenging your belief. Remember, perception is reality. If you had started the game and met the Enclave first, would your loyalty really have switched over to the BoS?
Mine wouldn't have. Especially if I'd been rewarded with kick-ass armor, a huge gun, and some people to blow up.
Everyone in Fallout is a puppet, manipulated by either someone or some higher belief they've clumsily instilled in themselves to survive. The goals are the same. The means of achieving these goals aren't.

1) Project Purity was a Rivet City project that BOS supported, it was abandoned when James left with the baby, after his wife died in childbirth........since two out of the three main scientist (that we know off) working on the project were gone and the project was a failure at that point anyway, why would BOS try to keep it going?
2) Being disliked never killed anybody
3) The Pitt at that point was (as described by BOS) a lot worse than when we see it, BOS did their best to wipe out the mutant (trog?) population and took any unmutated children with them. Looking at the Pitt as it appears in the game, the innocent casualties would be wildmen or trogs.......unless there was a unmentioned settlement surviving within the Pitt pre-scourging.
4) The Megaton incident? if so attempting to kill a trader to steal the water would hardly make them innocent.

The Enclave isn't interested in the re-establishment of humanity, just the re-establishment of their little part of it with openly genocidal policies and frankly they are a bunch of dumb asses as well, with an established manufacting base and miltiary force why are they bothering to attempt to take over covertly.....pick a state, wipe everybody out and start re-building america, then move onto the next state.

Nooooo not this again. D:

FOR THE LAST TIME, IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT!

its just a game, nothing more, nothing less.

I'd LOVE for you to go over to the "Lone Wanderer almost super-human" Thread and say that.


We've been trying to get that point across since it popped onto these forums...

Closed at the request of the OP.