Are the events that take place in The Elder Scrolls Online considered canon for The Elder Scrolls lore? There seems to be a lot in Online that either doesn't make much sense, or just isn't a good addition to the history.

I sure hope not.

I concur completely.

King

IIRC official word was "Yes" but I guess we'll have to wait till the next game to see. Sure as hell hope the aesthetic part isn't because certain provinces were tragic.

Events in ESO happen during a Dragon Break, so everything both does & doesn't happen, for every playthrough. But it won't affect the rest of TES any more than it already has, so to speak.

That's my take on it, too (the game itself heavily hits to everything occurring during a DB). I think the most we'll hear is a mention to the Planemeld, considering it's set in what can be considered Tamriel's Dark Ages.

100% canon thankfully considering it has the better writing of the series(They worked closely with Betheda on that), but considering it is during a dragon break it will have the same effect as the main series TES, Bethesda will just pick and chose what it wants and retcon what it does not want. So same old same old.

How the hell is the writing good they don't even manage to get the Lore right....

Neither can the main series, all you have to look at all the massive retcons between each game. Heck all of Cyrodill would apply, since none of it is accurate to the lore it had.

You mean like the main games do on a whim? :U I'm surprised people still shout "muh lore!" instead of being numb to it.

It has its own annoying plotholes and the PC gets a hold of the idiot ball a few times (in the Skyrim zones, which I find hilarious) but on the whole it's far more engaging that what the recent TES games have come up with. But then, the writing from Bethesda's more recent games set a pretty low bar.

Yeah it's definitely more engaging, I actually care for these NPCs!

The more I played ESO and then go back to the main series... well I found out that I'm only playing the main series for the sandbox nature of it. Because the writing has been going downhill with each new installment.

Orsinium sold me on the future DLC, been wanting to go there for the longest time and it surpassed my expectations. I loved finding the old relics and helping rebuild. Loved going through the ruins and finding more about the Orcish culture.

Can someone please mention the lore things ZOS supposedly got wrong so we can show those people how little they looked into their complaints? Most of the things I've found that seemed off have explanations (Books in the wrong time, jungle cyrodiil, etc). That said, they picked a good setting to avoid stepping on Bethesda's toes, dragon break in the interregnum.

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/372017971423498240 <-- Canon. There's proof. Most of the writing is pretty good and the lore additions are nice, though sadly aren't really expanded on as much as they should be. Eg, there are vague hints to the Lamia (a race originally from Daggerfall) having a religion involving "the Egg Mother and the Great Egg" but not much else is said about it.

Officially it's canon but a lot of people still want to disagree with this out of spite, which is their choice. Still, I find it's a shame that it's criticized so much within lore communities, particularly because the issues people often bring up with about the lore shown in ESO often are explained within the game itself or are due to MMO gameplay mechanics, and expecting gameplay mechanics to go well with lore is like sticking your hand in a jar full of hornets and being surprised and disappointed when you get stung.

Some of the often ones I see:


-People point out that the Argonians, Dunmer and Nords being in an alliance, as well as the Orcs, Bretons and Redguards being in one is contradictory to what we know about them and doesn't make sense.

By that statement alone that would be true, but if one were to look into the game and all of the storylines that surround that very aspect, it would be quite clear that those alliances are not all happy-go-lucky, and almost every time you turn a corner the alliance is threatened to be broken within due to the bad blood that exists between them. A lot of Argonians don't join the Pact, some are even directly against it, because they don't believe it will last and that working with their former slave-masters naturally isn't something they're very keen on. A lot of Orcs still harbor resentment towards the Bretons and Redguards for destroying Orsinium, some more openly than others, and in one quest their resentment nearly gets warped by daedric influence to destroy the Breton city of Wayrest. The alliances are already on life-support and the tension makes for interesting storylines, one of enemies working together out of necessity to overcome a greater threat; that threat being both the Three Banners War as well as the Planemeld.

-Cyrodiil not being a jungle in ESO.

Admittedly it is disappointing that it wasn't portrayed as a jungle in ESO despite all of the references to it once being one, but to be perfectly fair Oblivion did the same thing. Before Oblivion all references to Cyrodiil were that it was a jungle, but in Oblivion it wasn't; there was an explanation for why it wasn't in the form in that Talos was the one who changed it via CHIM and/or the Voice (cross referencing Commentaries on the Mysterious Xarxes pt. 3 with Many Headed Talos), but why could that same explanation not work for how it's portrayed in ESO? For all we know the effect could have been retroactive and changed Cyrodiil throughout all of history, except that these things are never absolute and thus the books and memories that still reference them otherwise. It just takes a little creativity on part of the reader.

-That any race can join any alliance and become Emporer regardless of their race and alliance.

I'm not really sure why this bugs people but I've seen it mentioned a couple times. The whole become-emporer thing is just a gameplay mechanic in its purest form, it's not even really emporership, just an honorary title in the midst of battle, no one has any different dialogue regarding you while you're emporer. So yes, you can be a human within the Aldmeri Dominion and become 'Emporer' in the battle of Cyrodiil, when Queen Ayrenn says that her reasoning for wanting to restore an Elven empire is because humans make poor leaders due to their short life-span, but if one would really disregard everything else presented in ESO because of this fact, well its their choice and their loss.

-That none of the events of ESO are mentioned in any other TES games

That's not really a fair criticism, in my opinion, Zeni chose that time period due to its flux and lack of information that they could build the game within, rather than have it take place post-skyrim so as to not limit Bethesda in future games, so the complaints people have on this regard should realize that if they truly don't like ESO, they should be grateful that Zeni chose to put it in the past rather than the future, because the past is easier to ignore. Anyway, not much information made it out of the 400 years of war throughout Tamriel, admittedly it's hard to think that no one would remember such a significant event like the Planemeld - but maybe they have? We as players don't get to read every single book that exists, quite often some books are referenced that don't exist, and there are a lot of volumes which indicate there are more but which we don't have access to yet (like the 16 accords of Madness), so in the end there could be some books about the Planemeld and Three Banners war sitting on bookshelves that we've just not read. Failing that, there could be some other reason as to why no one remembers it, there's still more storyline to take place in ESO that hasn't yet; such as what seems to be a war between the Daedric princes, maybe something will come of this that will end up resulting in the loss of memory. Not necessarily a Dragonbreak per-say but something with similar effects.

There are others but none particularly come to mind at the moment, other than Senche-tigers which has since been clarified; at release people thought the Senche-tigers seen throughout ESO were the Senche form of Khajiit, although Senche-tigers match the appearance of Pahmar instead of Senche. It turns out though that no, they aren't the Senche form of Khajiit, it's just their name and there also Senche-leopards, panthers, etc, which are not Khajiit and not intelligent, but are still used and trained by Khajiit for various things. Perhaps the word 'Senche' means something in Ta'agra (other than the form itself) that could explain why they're called this, maybe it could also explain the city of Senchal's name too if its a derivation of it.


Oh, and the Mane's appearance...I admit I am very disappointed with that, I hope they go back and make the Manes look like what a Mane should be (with or without the ceremonial 'headdress'; they did explain that it's changed from time to time in ESO) some time when more Elsweyr zones are created, along with adding more of the forms of Khajiit. If all of Elsweyr is added eventually and still only Cathays (or Suthay-rahts depending on your interpretation) are running about, I'll be very disheartened. Scale theory is one thing but disregarding something as culturally important to the Khajiit as their different forms within their own homeland isn't something I can abide, but we'll just have to wait and see. Graphics budgets are the bane of everything.

Anyway, while some of the events are questionable to critics, ESO brings in a lot of new lore on all fronts and all races, and not every bit of lore is related to the timeline of events, we also learn a lot about the different cultures for example. A lot of in-game books you might come across on different wiki's you wouldn't even know was added by ESO due to lack of mention of the time period. So, regardless of whether or not Bethesda chooses to mention the Planemeld or the Three Banners War itself in future TES games, they'll undoubtedly at least make heavy use of the other new cultural lore presented in ESO because for one, they helped Zenimax Online write it in the first place, and two, they'd have to purposely go very far out their way not to do so.

Well said AedricDaedra. To add to your point about Cyrodiil, there's an in-game text where an NPC speculates on this: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/subtropical-cyrodiil

And another one: Books published in future eras showing up in ESO. One of the Ayleid ruins is a library that calls books from across space and time, so they end up in the wrong time and random places. The work of a worshipper of Hermaeus Mora.

From the loading screen: Tales say that Gandranen was built by an Ayleid sorcerer, a worshiper of Hermaeus Mora who so loved books that she created a series of magical halls that would attract books from across Tamriel, no matter where—or when—they were published.

Jesus H. Christ another of these threads? The last one's right there on the third page.

El Barto 227 already hit the nail on the head.

Sure, probably. Beth isn't beholden to include any of their depictions of Tamriel, landscapes or otherwise due to obvious creative differences and general ability to actually make good landscapes, so I wouldn't say that we'd see a copy/paste instance of what ESO shows us and what TES VI: Wherever would.

As for the events themselves...sure, why not? Most of the quest lines aren't actually bad, have no real relevance by the time the main series takes place, and otherwise doesn't need to be touched on.

To be honest, this is the main reason I don't believe too much of the events surrounding the Three Banners War and Planemeld will be mentioned in future games. But then Beth has a habit of picking and choosing what they want to put in their games whether or not it meshes well with the previous game, so whatever. I'm also eager to see what the Daedra "War" plotline brings. It might even explain why the Oblivion Crisis only involved Mehrunes Dagon and the other Daedric Princes just kinda sat back, unlike ESO where they all have their fun on Tamriel in some way or another.

There's also a good chance that we might not get to see some of these provinces within the next decade or two, so the fact that some races were finally thrown a bone and got a great deal of lore created for them and existing lore expanded upon was one of the best things ESO did. Wrothgar, Valenwood, what little we see of Black Marsh and Elsweyr, hell even High Rock which hasn't been heard from since the Warp in the West in the main games. Though like Auridon I wish they expanded a bit on HR. There were some good things but for the most part it was forgettable (though a few sidequests and the Wyrd stuff was okay). It's nice to have something to fill in the gaps, you know?

yes it is canon, the people who own the IP said its canon, so can you guess what that means? ohh yeah, its canon!




some people will refuse to acknowledge this, because they have that closed mind "it be online, online be badz! online can't be realz!".. all they know is "it be onlinez", and refuse to learn anything more about it and just immediately cast it off

they do a better job at keeping to the lore than the past three games


ESO has alot of problems (alot), but writing and lore representation isn't one of them

Yes, it is. Doubt people critizing it's lore ever really bothered to play at all. ESO adds a lot to the TES universe, especially on the unexplored provinces.


You can tell the loremasters there are passionate about what they do, what with how there's always some RP event or interactive Q&A going on.

I'd recommend anyone doubtful of ESO's lore to pick up the game. It's Buy to Play and currently on the Steam Winter Sale for half off.

I was leery of ESO but I recently gave it a shot and was very pleasantly surprised. I rolled the Ebonheart Pact deliberately because that was the faction that made me most irritated lore wise, but within a handful of quests I realized that the Ebonheart Pact is a "faction" simply because there isn't time to air former grievances.

ESO seems to be quite respectful to the lore of the TES Universe, and is quite a lot of fun on the whole. I mean, what other game lets you pick a Rogue class and also allow you to wear heavy armor (Though to be fair, I haven't found any medium armor to steal).

Where did you see ESO happens during a dragon break?

I just wish there was a way to collect the dialogue from some of the npcs. What they say happen at certain points isn't what made it into the official histories....

With the constant shifts in power, the constant fighting, the little issue of Molag Bal, and incidentals like that, I can understand why there isn't any definitive history/facts showing up hundreds of years later. Especially when its the winners who finally write the histories. And only Hermaeus Mora keeps *every* piece of written information. No dragon break necessary.

You mean just about any history notes :"Massive war and Deadra Invasion today ahh must be nothing important." it has been only about 300 years until Tiber took over.That's like saying there shouldn't be any sources about the Oblivion crisis in Skyrim....

It makes no sense for it to be not at least noted.Just as the Tharn Family makes no sense...

And the winners would note it ...you know because they won. and there is no reason not to unless something just eredicated it from history.

You seem to be under the impression that all the books and such we've seen so far in the games are literally the only ones that exist, their contents being the extent of people's knowledge. You might as well make the same argument about us knowing little about the Tribunal until Morrowind, or about the Dragons until Skyrim. It's almost as if stuff's being fleshed out over time, isn't it?

Off the top of your head, how many wars from the last 1000 years do you know about? I can tell you, there's a helluva lot more that's gone on than just what you might commonly hear about. There's plenty of reading material about all that, some of the wars were far from insignificant, but can you honestly say you know about them right this moment?

Until ESO, we'd known basically nothing about the Interregnum other than its existence. That's not because the events of ESO didn't happen, but because they were not relevant yet. The Tribunal and Nerevar were not relevant in Daggerfall, the Dragons were not relevant in Oblivion, we found out stuff about them in the games they were relevant to. TES6 might have a book referencing or even detailing the events of ESO, but it'll most likely be more for the purpose of expanding the available reading material than because it's in any way relevant.

Just because someone won, doesn't mean they will do anything worth recording, or that they will last long enough to write very much. If you look at the last Western Roman emperors the unsettled time of wars, economic issues, and fighting kinda took a toll. The length of the reigns that are recorded, the ones that are recorded at all don't look very conducive to stable government. The longest was 5 years, the shortest 2 and a half months.

You also have the issue of "does the information that does get recorded survive?" There are hundreds of books, histories, and biographies that are referred to in existing pieces of work, but the originals are long lost. There are many reasons why information doesn't get passed on.