Are there any underwater Argonian "cities"?

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 1:51 am

Because we all know the denizens of Nirn breath good old fashioned oxygen, made of oxygen atoms. They're also probably effected by Arsenic the same way as us, and were probably all relieved when some mage discovered Penicillin can treat Syphilis. :yawn:

They do breathe.

They can be poisoned.

And they have healing magicks for innumerable venereal diseases (else how'd Dibella's cult get to be so popular?).

Either play the game, or leave those who find it fun to do so to it.

:tes:
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Dustin Brown
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:24 pm

I think it comes from the execution. The tiny example I mentioned offhand a few posts ago, Argonian pirate/raiders coming from submerged camps to wreak havoc would be an interesting use of it, I think. It would tie into the emphasis the lore places on Argonians being guerrilla warfare experts without just being "well here's a city but it's all in shades of blue, everyone moves slower and there are fish instead of birds - have fun".

I'm sure with more than half a second of thought there are other ideas to use it which could be brought up as well.

That said, if a game were set in the Black Marsh, I don't think there would be any hurt for "interesting" ideas. People often talk about the alien atmosphere of Morrowind and how its departure from generic medieval fantasy was such a plus. I don't think a Black Marsh game would need an Atlantis to achieve a similar feeling, given all the craziness going on there.

Yes, and that is part of my point - Bethesda could come up with something extravagant and new... and it would probably be something that would have to contend with many of the reasons for why they are going around real-world physics, and why they are resulting in something radically different from just "a bar underwater" or "Venice, but with some houses underwater".

It caused problems earlier on when people complained about how ebony and glass were once supposedly only found around Red Mountain, but then, now, glass is just some malachite ore. (... Which, again, makes no sense, as malachite is a real-world copper ore, and the best explanation that can be given is "it has nothing to do with real-world malachite", which isn't an explanation at all, since they could have called it "banana sundae" if they wanted the name of a real-world material for their completely fictional material that had nothing to do with what it was in the real world...)

It is going to cause problems if they start showing off how Argonians have some sort of super-advanced magical culture when they're generally referred to as "primitives" that have "nothing to teach" the rest of Tamriel. If they have some sort of underwater farming technique nobody's ever heard of, and it produces all sorts of new foods and alchemical ingredients... why haven't we heard of it?
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gemma king
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 1:00 am

why haven't we heard of it?

Because no one cares about the Black Marsh in game? I'd like to give them some leeway to dazzle us with an amazing new something, even if it doesn't forever change the rest of Tamriel.

On the other hand, again, Argonia has enough established lore to keep a player entertained without needing its own Atlantis. Nagas, worms that act as trains because they digest so slowly, komodo dragons, quetzalcoatls, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2YjyharfZ0&feature=related and mother[censored]in werecrocodiles, man.

I'm not arguing that it hasn't been mentioned in the lore or that it doesn't make sense given conventional physics and reality, just that neither of those are necessary for something to be considered an interesting idea or for something to be introduced in a fantasy setting if the person in charge likes it.
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Angela Woods
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:17 am

Because no one cares about the Black Marsh in game? I'd like to give them some leeway to dazzle us with an amazing new something, even if it doesn't forever change the rest of Tamriel.

On the other hand, again, Argonia has enough established lore to keep a player entertained without needing its own Atlantis. Nagas, worms that act as trains because they digest so slowly, komodo dragons, quetzalcoatls, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2YjyharfZ0&feature=related and mother[censored]in werecrocodiles, man.

I'm not arguing that it hasn't been mentioned in the lore or that it doesn't make sense given conventional physics and reality, just that neither of those are necessary for something to be considered an interesting idea or for something to be introduced in a fantasy setting if the person in charge likes it.

I wouldn't expect the werecrocodiles, we were supposed to get werebears up in Skyrim.

Then we got basically no werewolves outside of the Companions questline, and a lorebook saying that were-whatevers were probably all a bunch of myths and that nobody's actually seen a were-whatever, and only had accounts of a friend's cousin that supposedly saw one.

Blackreach would be the thing you can compare this to... and an example of not doing it to well, as well, since you have a place where, even to get there, you have to descend through a Dwemer elevator shaft, through a horde of supposedly-extinct Falmer, and then get to a giant underground cavern filled with glowing green rocks and giant jellyfish mushrooms... and the only thing interesting or valuable about all that stuff that an adventurer who got down there and brought back with him was "oh, hey, it's a nirnroot, but it's RED? OHMYGOD, THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!"

Wouldn't the stories of, I don't know, the supposedly extinct race that are hell-bent on the destruction of mankind slowly marshaling its strength for a return to the surface and bloody vengeance warrant at least a footnote when you were talking to other people about that big cavern you found? You know, the reason you had to leave, what with it all getting too dangerous to stay?

Anyway, I'm not saying that underwater cities can't be done, but that they need a level of care and attention in their explanation and delivery that I'm not entirely sure Bethesda is going to be willing to deliver on, given its recent track record.
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stephanie eastwood
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:43 am

There's a werewolf in Hircine's Daedric quest in Skyrim as well, and I think that it as well as the nonCompanion werewolves you come across in the Companion quests reinforce their presence at least somewhat, but I agree. Skyrim, despite how amazing it is, could certainly use some polish and I don't think anyone would argue with you there. I think there's hope that Bethesda will learn with their next main series title and not rush to reach an arbitrary, if neat, release date. With that polish something like Blackreach, Werecrocs or even Argonian Atlantis would be a nice bit of the larger picture.
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 5:20 pm

It is going to cause problems if they start showing off how Argonians have some sort of super-advanced magical culture when they're generally referred to as "primitives" that have "nothing to teach" the rest of Tamriel. If they have some sort of underwater farming technique nobody's ever heard of, and it produces all sorts of new foods and alchemical ingredients... why haven't we heard of it?
Actually the games have shown Argonians to be very smart and very adaptable. They excel at being mages, are drafted into being assassins because of their natural aptitude for stealth, and have been seen to be good combative marauders. The reason for having a "primitive" tribal culture in Black Marsh is probably because that's the most advantageous for the environment. Also, when you're ruled over by psychic trees that can change your physical form on a whim... things do tend to get a bit murky.
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Jinx Sykes
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 4:40 am

IIRC, The Infernal City also mentions ziggurats when talking about Argonian cities.
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Laura
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 8:29 am

the hist would create air for its children i do hope there is one
note it could be like star wars were the buildings are inside air bubbles
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lillian luna
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:37 am

I'm thinking like that underwater city in SW: TPM on Naboo?
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Beth Belcher
 
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