Are there really people who just hate the idea of having a h : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:44 pm

So you're OK with a survival mode implemented on the premise that if certain dungeons can't be completed in that mode--due to length or location--survivalists just won't do those dungeons? I assume you must be since you disregarded my comment about not wanting such a mode to limit encounter design ...

That doesn't make any sense to me.

How would anybody be restricted from adventuring anywhere?

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:36 am

to the people who dont want it...YOU DONT have to play it

And if it's not needed then the developers don't have to waste precious time on it either.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:39 pm

And if it's not needed then the developers don't have to waste precious time on it either.

"not needed" in the context that you're giving is highly subjective.
You're assuming that:

1. Everyone has a PC
2. This mode would take a lot of time/ space on disk
3. This mode would be a waste, which it isn't, since 75%+ want this available as an OPTION.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:29 pm

And if it's not needed then the developers don't have to waste precious time on it either.

Adding a few meters cant be too hard.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:02 pm

They did say that the PC and NPC's will react to the weather, wind, and harsh climates! :celebration:

Where did they say this?

If there is a hardcoe mode, I am definitely using this on my first playthrough.

But if not, then I will roleplay having to eat, drink, sleep, and hunkering down from the elements.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:28 pm

Stop asking for more options, please. I don't want http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/Proditus/Unnecessary.jpg. If you want to play Skyrim on hard, just turn the difficulty all the way up and fight without any armor or weapons on.

That's a terrible excuse.

So youre strongly against something that doesnt affect or harm your gaming experience in any way and dont want it simply because you dont like it? If the options are somewhere where you or someone else who doesnt like them wont even have to see them then how can you possibly be against it? And dont give me that "games dont work that way" bs. Options are a win-win. Most of the options people want like hardcoe mode or compass toggle wont take almost any dev time either and lots of fans would be happy because of them. You being against it and therefore not wanting it for anyone is not really a valid argument. Playing Skyrim on hard wont make up for a good hardcoe mode or compass toggle or any other options the game needs. Especially if its made with the enemies have 100000000 health style which just makes the battles boring and tedious.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:21 am

If by "react" they mean there will be an animation, they had that in morrowind also, during the sand storms people covered there faces with one arm.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 pm

"not needed" in the context that you're giving is highly subjective.
You're assuming that:

1. Everyone has a PC
2. This mode would take a lot of time/ space on disk
3. This mode would be a waste, which it isn't, since 75%+ want this available as an OPTION.

That's why I said 'if', I'm not ruling it out totally. If the majority of people really want it that bad, then so be it. But at the moment we only have 100 votes in total, which doesn't give an indication of anything. If we had a few thousand votes, then the devs may take notice.

In saying that, yes I think this could be resolved via a mod for the PC community, I know this leaves the console players at a loss. But you have to weigh up the value of adding this feature with developer time, which could be spent elsewhere.

Just my opinion anyway.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:56 pm

That's why I said 'if', I'm not ruling it out totally. If the majority of people really want it that bad, then so be it. But at the moment we only have 100 votes in total, which doesn't give an indication of anything. If we had a few thousand votes, then the devs may take notice.

In saying that, yes I think this could be resolved via a mod for the PC community, I know this leaves the console players at a loss. But you have to weigh up the value of adding this feature with developer time, which could be spent elsewhere.

Just my opinion anyway.

"Developer time."

I'm wondering, exactly how much time do you think creating this mode would possibly consume?
Maybe a single day?

I think it would be worth it as many console players would be, as you've said yourself, missing out.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:45 pm

For me, it depends on what "hardcoe" entails. IMO, it's not hardcoe to have to push a hotkey every 5 minutes to "eat/drink" something. It's just tedious micromanaging. If they could find some way to make hardcoe mode appealing, I might consider playing it. However, if it's anything like FNV's (I know, different developer, but still), count me out.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:58 pm

For me, it depends on what "hardcoe" entails. IMO, it's not hardcoe to have to push a hotkey every 5 minutes to "eat/drink" something. It's just tedious micromanaging. If they could find some way to make hardcoe mode appealing, I might consider playing it. However, if it's anything like FNV's (I know, different developer, but still), count me out.

hardcoe meaning:

You don't eat, sleep or drink for (x amount of time) and you start to get sick.
The sickness may make you
move slower,
falter when you walk/ run,
have screen disorientation,
and then eventually death.

There could be advantages associated with eating and whatever as well, like bonuses to damage or whatever.

Maybe even a very limited hud for hardcoe mode.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:57 am

^^^^ those were just examples, I'm sure that there could be better things to be put into hardcoe mode.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:07 pm

if it was like NV then I wouldnt like it, that was just terrible, it didnt even feel any harder

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:20 pm

Okay the people who say no really have no stance in this. It is an option. If you don't want to play it then dont.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:59 pm

"Developer time."

I'm wondering, exactly how much time do you think creating this mode would possibly consume?
Maybe a single day?

I think it would be worth it as many console players would be, as you've said yourself, missing out.

Having played around with the CS a bit... It probably wouldn't take more than a few days to code, playtest, evaluate, calibrate, and integrate. The trouble comes when tweaking settings across the default game... the playtesting process for hardcoe mode needs to be retested after every major change and in every new version of the game, and further played with to truly work. It wouldn't be too hard... but might be more of a waste of time than simply including the default enemy HP/damage slider that only needs to be coded once.

Then comes the world design choices that need to be made to guarantee the player a place to sleep often enough to not incur penalties, enough readily available food, etc...

Plus, can you imagine fighting an epic day long battle with a dragon... only to collapse from lack of sleep?

EDIT: As mentioned earlier, I won't likely be using a hard core mode feature, even if it was included. I'll be playing Skyrim on Xbox 360 for probably a year before I can afford a decent gaming rig. Oblivion already taxes my laptop's resources on Medium settings. I fully realize that I don't speak for every console player here, but I don't honestly see hard core mode as being worth the hit to developer time it take to do it right.

As mentioned by others, I feel that Bethesda's wonderful modding community will produce dozens of hardcoe mode mods that will blow any official mode out of the water.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:29 am

hardcoe meaning:

You don't eat, sleep or drink for (x amount of time) and you start to get sick.
The sickness may make you
move slower,
falter when you walk/ run,
have screen disorientation,
and then eventually death.

...Therefore, you have to push a hotkey every 5 minutes to eat/drink something.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:28 pm

Having played around with the CS a bit... It probably wouldn't take more than a few days to code, playtest, evaluate, calibrate, and integrate. The trouble comes when tweaking settings across the default game... the playtesting process for hardcoe mode needs to be retested after every major change and in every new version of the game, and further played with to truly work. It wouldn't be too hard... but might be more of a waste of time than simply including the default enemy HP/damage slider that only needs to be coded once.

Then comes the world design choices that need to be made to guarantee the player a place to sleep often enough to not incur penalties, enough readily available food, etc...

Plus, can you imagine fighting an epic day long battle with a dragon... only to collapse from lack of sleep?

Should of rested up for the big fight!

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:10 pm

"Developer time."

I'm wondering, exactly how much time do you think creating this mode would possibly consume?
Maybe a single day?

I got no idea, but if I had to hazard a guess, I would definitely say more than a day. Quite a bit more.

But hey, I'm just offering my humble opinion, good luck with the campaign :thumbsup:

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:16 pm

For me, a "hardcoe" mode in oblivion would mean less loot, tougher merchants, assassins/guards that track and attack the player, more use of powerful poisons by enemies, stronger dragons, etc.

That being said, I don't understand how people could think that realism is a trivial matter in oblivion. Incentive to eat and sleep would add a lot to the immersion, but I agree, it would be out of place to call it hardcoe mode. I'd want it in the regular game and not as a penalty but as a buff.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:04 am

if it was like NV then I wouldnt like it, that was just terrible, it didnt even feel any harder

"hardcoe" mode is about "hardcoe" role-playing and not "hardcoe" zomg 1337 game mastery.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:49 am

To save time, I'm just going to quote myself here from an older discussion on "hardcoe" mode:

I think the biggest problem with any sort of "hardcoe" mode is that its issues are instantaneously resolved. The in-game actions do not represent the difficulties present in real life. In real life, when I am tired in an African savanna, I have to go to sleep for hours on end with potential every single second that I am going to be attacked. SLEEPING takes effort in such situations. But in-game, I press the wait button, I rest until healed, the ticker flies by, and I just spent one second in real life time sleeping hours and hours in game. If I'm hungry in real life, I must take the time to sit down, have food in the first place, and then eat it, all the while in potential danger now that my guard is down. In game? You open a menu that pauses the game, and you take the food and move it over your guy and you hear a gulping sound effect and then that's it. You just at an entire meal in an instant, and that nagging message about hunger went away. No danger at all to you. If you're cold in real life, you constantly have to battle it by putting on clothing, making sure you don't sweat so it won't freeze and then kill you. In game? You put on sufficient clothing and then the game stops complaining.

The issue is that none of these problems take the effort that they do in real life. That is what turns them from important tasks to pestering annoyances. That is why active problems like ammo weight, stimpaks healing over time, and needing a doctor's bag to fix broken limbs are so much more powerful. These are truly game changing, and are constant issues. The game doesn't squeal at you that you have too much ammo and should drop/sell/store some because that next dungeon will leave you overweight. No, you have to keep track of it and decide whether you're going to drop ammo or whether you need it and are going to drop something else. Stimpaks healing over time are game changing and are constantly weighing on a fighter's decisions, as are limbs being broken. These problems do not appear, nag, then quickly disappear. No, they are much more integrated into one's experiences.

Eating, drinking, sleeping, and potentially cold/heat issues need to be much the same. They need to be obstacles that are constantly in your way, not something that pops up only to be demolished in the press of a single piece of food or a single bottle of water.

That should address most issues.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:47 pm

...Therefore, you have to push a hotkey every 5 minutes to eat/drink something.

Hahah. I don't have an answer for you,
I don't know how the whole spamming a hot key thing could be avoided.
someone else is bound to have an idea although!

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Most people on the forums want one, although I'm not sure the average fan would ever play it.

hardcoe mode is really just for hardcoe fans. That being said, I want it

.

I disagree.
hardcoe mode is for hardcoe players.
I'm not sure if I want it. I never did it in new vegas because it didn't seem to add much. All it did was make the game micro-manage-y.
I suppose it would add some sort of replay-ability, but with 300 hours already, who needs it?

I'm not necessarily against the option, I just don't see what it adds.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:53 am

For me, a "hardcoe" mode in oblivion would mean less loot, tougher merchants, assassins/guards that track and attack the player, more use of powerful poisons by enemies, stronger dragons, etc.

That being said, I don't understand how people could think that realism is a trivial matter in oblivion. Incentive to eat and sleep would add a lot to the immersion, but I agree, it would be out of place to call it hardcoe mode. I'd want it in the regular game and not as a penalty but as a buff.

that should be tied to game difficulty... which is a common misconception about hardcoe mode in NV. I really hope the 'difficulty' slider does all kinds of neat things instead of just bloating the enemy health pool.

» Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:53 am

My view on this will probably be unpopular, but I'll throw a reason down for my "no" vote.

I think the time and resources should be put to a different use (I won't say "better" because it's obviously my opinion, and we all have different definitions for what "better" would be in this series) such as adding extra clothing slots, layering armor, pauldrons, more and unique armor sets and pieces, etc. Another reason I've seen in this thread and agree with is the fact that a system like this could easily be added by advanced scripting in mods. I have yet to see a mod add slots for equipment in Oblivion so that pauldrons can be separate from cuirass (at least without absorbing an amulet slot in the process).