I read your quote, and I agree.

But how can you have a hardcoe mode when carrots don't even weigh anything? :ahhh:

I've never understood this naive notion that resources can just be moved around. Each department has a set amount of things that they can do, and you don't just move development resources like that. If some weapons were left out of the game, will that make the graphics look better? No, because the weapon designers aren't the graphics designers.

Have you played hardcoe mode in New Vegas? Because I don't think that's the issue there; the issue there is how it's implemented. It isn't any fun. I'd say if there is a hardcoe mode that is fun and rewarding, yes please! There are mods in FO3 that make it fun. However, as implemented in NV it is boring and what is worse, it is tedious (imo).

instead of showing a meter the character could gradually start to suffer from effects and it is up to the player to recognize what needs to be taken care of and when. No big, bright signs popping up on screen to tell you to eat/sleep/drink. That way it is not intrusive and can creep up on the player to cause something undesirable to occur....

I think they should include a hardcoe mode but it should only effect sleeping, eating, and drinking

Environmental factors is pushing the mode from interesting experiment in reality to why not include bathroom requirements

It is better than no hardcoe mode at all... and is a step in the right direction. The problem is that hardcoe mode would take effort to implement and why would BGS do that if people will still buy the game if it is not included.

I hope! I really wouldn't mind a hardcoe mode as long as it was fun. I'd like to see something that both added an interesting challenge and improved gameplay without going into micromanage territory. I don't know if that's possible as it seems that a lot of people who want a hardcoe mode do want to essentially just spam the hotkeys. But we can wait for the next good idea.

Maybe 75% of forum goers want this option. But the members of this forum probably account for less than 10 percent of the people who will actually end up playing Skyrim.

If you really want the game to be realistic, just roleplay, or get a PC and download some mods. If you really need the game to have built in mechanisms to make it more realistic, then I think that you're missing the whole point of a ROLE playing game. I'm sorry, but meters and counters for things like hunger and sleep are not realistic. In real life, I don't have some imaginary slider telling me when I need to eat or drink. There are no numbers carved into my steak telling me exactly how much nourishment I'm going to receive by eating it. And there's no chart next to my bed telling me the optimal number of hours I should sleep for maximum rest.

In order to implement an actually realistic hardcoe mode, it would take a considerable amount of time, which would be wasted considering the majority of players will never even use the feature. If Bethesda were to spend only a day implementing a "hardcoe" feature just to please a small percentage of their fans, those fans would just run back to the forums screaming "WAH, the hardcoe mode isn't realistic enough! Why did Bethesda waste their time?"

While I hate the idea of eating and sleeping in my games, it should be added for those who do like that stuff.

Fair enough opinion.

This still doesn't address slots for armor, which seems like a coding task and not a graphical task. Also, since a lot of the armor sets already have pauldrons, it might not be a massive endeavor to separate pieces of it. This doesn't require loads of additional modeling.

This worked well enough in Morrowind.

AGREED.

Also, moving that decimal over a place and saying that these forums represent less than 1% of total Skyrim players would be more accurate. This game will sell millions of copies, and I don't think there's more than a few hundred of us actively posting here.

Even though I'd probably never play an optional "hardcoe" mode if it were in the game, I see no reason to argue against having it, myself, unless Bethesda really just doesn't have the time to do it, because if I don't want it, I wouldn't have to use it. An argument that works pretty well here because there's no reason I'd use a hardcoe mode if didn't want to. Not using it if I don't want to worked well enough for me in New Vegas, and it would work in Skyrim too, if such an option were implemented.

However, since Bethesda has never even mentioned anything about it at this point, I think it's rather unlikely that we'll see it in Skyrim, so those who want that sort of thing will just have to download mods.

Then you run into the problem of player simply using food every other time they enter their inventory just to drive off hunger. Even a limit on food eaten (the character might get bloated from eating too much, or waterlogged from drinking too much), if you paced yourself properly it would never be an issue.

Like I said in my quoted post, the LARGEST problem with ANY sort of "hardcoe" mode is that the real reasons that food/water/sleep/warmth are so pressing is because they're ALWAYS an issue. Even getting hungry with no meter or icon to tell you is not an issue once a player catches on. Once the player gets used to it, they will eat in intervals, completely illuminating the need for food. Warmth would most likely never appear in a hardcoe mode because its such a binary thing due to the way clothing most likely works. In real life, I can put on twenty t-shirts, but in a game like Oblivion, I can only wear one piece of clothing in one slot. Once you reach the warmth required, the problem has been solved. And, going further, the game is obviously not going to simulate sweat freezing, so that isn't a problem, whereas in real life sweating in a freezing environment is a CONSTANT danger that must be thought of when doing any action.

It simply comes down the nature of video games, emphasis on games. Without a dedicated GM looking over every players shoulders, games rarely, if ever, accurately depict what survival is really like. In a game of DnD, a DM can tell you that your sweat is freezing and that you might want to pace yourself better, but in a video game? Its just too binary. You're either cold, or you aren't. Hungry or not. Thirsty or not. Its so much work to represent hunger, thirst, or warmth in a realistic manner you eventually find yourself making an entirely new game.

At the very least, however, I think simple survival mechanisms can be done well. For example, in Farcry 2, the player must sometimes stop for quite some time in order to put bandages on wounds and the like. THAT is where the danger comes from; when an action actually takes TIME and EFFORT. I can't just stop in the middle of the desert and immediately finish a meal and then go on my way; no, I have to stop, sit down, open the can, drop my weapon, start eating, watch for danger, keep eating, watch for danger, pace myself because I don't want to get sick, find a shady place so I won't get hot, make sure I ration myself, watch for danger, and so on. Emphasis on watching for danger.

But as I said, this is a video GAME, and we can't have the player stopping for ten minutes just to eat, because, unless the game is really, really into detail, with tigers stalking you through your entire meal, its not very exhilarating. However, even an attempt at making a realistic option seem SOMEWHAT more realistic than other attempts is good enough. In real life it may take 30 minutes to dress a wound, but Farcry 2's ten or twenty seconds works well as a stand in, being long enough to represent the danger of dressing a wound in a warzone, while being short enough to not "waste" the players time. Perhaps potions could take 5 seconds to chug in hardcoe mode so players would have to think before they spam potions. Little efforts like that can make all the difference.

My hopes for NV was that the hardcoe mode would support a more strategically based gameplay. But it didn't. Not because it was badly implemented, imo, but because the world itself wasn't challenging enough. I need a wilderness to get lost in, a frontier, in which I, at some point, must rely on the food and gear I brought with me.
I still voted yes, though.

If you want this, become a modder and make it yourself, like others did for Oblivion and improved in FONV.

I personally hate hardcoe modes for games. I play them to relax and escape... not to get stressed and overwhelmed.

I need an "I don't care either way" option... because I don't care either way.

c'mon guys, just be fair. Never wanted to play a game that reachs as close as possible to rality? It would be great to have a system of eating/drinking/sleeping and etc. Just make this an optional and we're all happy.

I think you are exaggerating a bit. It is not like TES has stuff randomly spawning on you, anywhere. If you want a progress meter where you have to stand still while eating and drinking and sleeping.... well that could be done with a chance of something spawning on you while you are performing the action.

Surviving in TES isn't that hard you know. There is regular police presence, food and water are everywhere, and NPCs who have no means of defending themselves still live full rich lives farming.

What's so "hard core" about needing to eat and sleep? Roleplay is one thing, but are people suggest they are somehow superior because they play eat and sleep? Elitism can go in weird directions.

I used to want it...nowadays, having seen how a couple of "hardcoe" ( :rofl: ) modes were implemented in various games, I just don't care. They seem to be mediocre at best even when done by companies willing to implement real consequences, and those seem (to me anyway, opinions differ) to be something Bethesda's moving farther and farther away from. I just can't see Bethesda doing a "hardcoe mode" that I would do more than yawn and shrug at, so why even bother? :shrug:

Not voting, no "don't care" option.

If Bethesda were to go further in depth with features like this, it would become much more than a day long affair. They'd have to playtest all the new features, and make sure they didn't cause any conflicts with NPCs or quests. I'd much rather have Bethesda spend their time fixing last minute glitches and bugs rather than waste their time on a sloppy "hardcoe" feature.

Your crawling through a dungeon, and you run up on some baddies. Suddenly you get hungry, so instead of doing what you came to do you sit down for a cup of tea and crackers... Because you of course don't want to bother with the stat penalties.

The fact is it just ends up being a random debuff and tedious.

Also, I don't care how sleepy I am, my ass is wide awake when I start getting shot at...

Things like that, bother me in video games. Serious thought and work is required before I can insider this legitimate.

Such as - no eating raw food (can't just kill a rat and gobble it up)

No eating food killed with poison...

Effects don't occurs mid battle, though can be cumulative once the adrenaline wears down.

Realistic cycles and requirements. And also realistic ways to handle your needs out in the field.

This was the killer for me in new Vegas. Actually having to eat it. The salmon I just cooked isn't a pill. I don't just pop it down. Having to find the TIME is just as important. So that way, no, I'm not gana just pop my yummy pills and restore my hunger gauge mid fight, or ill even ignore it if I'm about to do something for awhile.

You totally misread what I meant. A 5 second drinking animation would make players think before they drank a potion in combat.

Sorry for the confusion.