http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vampire_Cure can do it. Sure the ingredients aren't easy to get, but she can still do it.



If they have, they've left no record of it.

Oh, they left and http://www.google.com/search?as_q=vampires+undead&hl=cs&num=10&btnG=Vyhled%C3%A1v%C3%A1n%C3%AD+Google&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=www.imperial-library.info&as_rights=&safe=images. The most notable records are Legions of the Dead, Blasphemous Revenants, Arkay The Enemy (written by Mannimarco himself) and others.

That is quite a bizarre attack on a straw man. No one claimed nobles can't be turned into vampires. The very text you failed to use as evidence for your views states that "few victims survive vampiric attacks or feedings."


You only find it logical to assume because it supports your position. (most likely, the distinguishing Ash vampires is done to separate them from blood vampires, who among other things, are commonly believed to be incurable) Turn undead not working on vamps in game is evidence that they are not effected by magic meant to effect the undead. And you have nothing to contradict that.

IN oblivion, you can retrieve the cure from a witch, who sends you on a long series of fetch quests that allow here to get the ingredients for the potion.. You should probably pay more attention to games besides morrowind.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Journal_of_the_Lord_Lovidicus states that, while a vampire, Lovid was able to impregnate a female of another race.

Therefore, in the case of Cyrodiilic vampires (which I assume Lovid was), I would have to say that they are, indeed, not undead. Perhaps, as stated above, life signs drop to the bare minimum, and blood is only some kind of perceived necessity for survival (similar to Vicente's weakness to garlic).

True. Let's not forget "zombie".


Responding to other postings...
I like that people remember there is a magical aspect to a vampire, not just physical (or empirical, as the case may be).

What I'm wondering now that I've read the above postings is if there's a source of this magicka. A vampire can live for a long time without feeding; is it an inherent amount of mana a vampire is enabled or does it come from some other source? What's got me thinking this way is - and correct me if I remember incorrectly - vampires received damage when in a temple (in DF). Damage from the sun I can understand because there's easily physical traits that could explain the damage. Damage when in a temple on the other hand makes me think there is a God involved.

I think zombie was actually based off of actual voodoo magic.

If I remember correctly they grind up a bunch of supplies to make a powder that won't kill you, but makes it seem like you're dead. Then they throw it in your face and people think you're dead so they bury you. Then they dig you up (since you need to breathe less when your vitals are that low you can survive), and they do something to give you brain damage... maybe it was the powder that does it. But after you've got that brain damage you can pretty-much only listen to simply commands and do very basic things. Your coordination would probably be messed up, so sometimes where people practiced this there would be your good friend who died a few days ago hobbling down the street, and you'd be like: "Oh my god! Zombie!"

Anyway... You can also receive blessings from the Nine as a vampire, too. So more likely than not they aren't some "unholy beasts".

Except to Arkay, because they're an abomination to him, and Dibella, because they're fugly.

Maybe they've become alive over the course of the series. The Imperial Library's bestiary says:

No, they don't specify that they're undead in any of them. None of them even test it or note the change from life to death to life again. They assume that since they "looked" dead that they must have been.

It's possible some clans of vampires are undead. That would explain the damage in temples in DF(Arkay is pissed!), but not the ones in MW or Obliv. Heck that would explain why they might overlook it in some other clans where it doesn't seem it's possible they could be undead.

Arkay could also be pissed just because it's preventing their death, can't have a life-death cycle if you skip a step. Or the temple damage may have been implicitly retconned with the more D&D elements of the series.

Arkay doesn't hate something just because it's undead, he hates it because it breaks the life-death cycle. If someone found a potion that gave immortality, he'd be pissed too, as that person will no longer die. He's the Grim Reaper and The Stork at the same time.

Here's your baby, Your husband will die of cancer in two weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyIneLnxuNg&feature=related

Could you point me to something that specifically says he also hates immortals and not just undead? I'm not seeing how it upsets the birth->death cycle if they just haven't died yet. birth->death->life makes sense, and I'm having trouble finding any literature that says that.

From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-arkay-god

Not direct, but implied. Vampires are immortal, they are abominations in his eyes. Using the undead as puppets, bad. Killing everything around you, bad. He's a god of balance in life. There cannot be too much life, but not to little.

But on a more serious note, Opusculus Lamae Bal ta Mezzamortie had the info I needed.(Though they're assuming vampires to be undead in that book, so...)

I take it Arkay would be most displeased with Divayth Fyr then?

Why else do elves seem to have low birth rates, despite their large life span, compared to humans? Then again, no one really likes Arkay, but Mannimarco is the first to have the balls to go up there and give him the middle finger by becoming a god and blockin' his ass!

So in other words... TESV: The Great Dunmer Population Explosion.

Dunmer gunna be crawlin' everw'ere!

Yes, they do specify vampires as undead (all those three books). You are right, none of them test it, but as I explained previously - there are hundreds of vampires and it is very unlikely that no one ever tried to test it. Those reports aren't present in the game (because it just can't contain everything) but the texts I mentioned are there. Why would scholars who wrote them believe that vampires are undead when there would be a proof to suggest otherwise? Well, because there is no proof that they are alive, because they are undead. Why would Mannimarco (The God of Worms, the king of necromancers) believe that vampires are undead if it wasn't true?

Few out of thousands or maybe tens of thousands is still quite a lot.

I wonder if turn undead works on those ghosts in KotN (since they are NPC)? I tried to google if vampires are really not affected by turn undead in game, I couldn't find anything. Although some vampires are part of the faction called "undead" in game.

Play Morrowind again people. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires_of_Vvardenfell

According to that, Vampires are undead.

It could be those three clans are undead, but others may not be. The clan in the Capital of the empire seems especially close to life. Hell they can even have kids! Your body has to alive for that to happen. Also the people writing these books are humans/mer not vamps. Not all they say should be taken as fact

Ingame books are the closest thing to official lore we can get. We can't really base our knowledge off those books and ingame storylines.

In Morrowind, Vampires are part of their individual clan faction. In Oblivion, there is a single vampire faction. The only exception is Lord Lovidicus, but his hideout, Crowhaven, has the potential to spawn undead. He's in the faction for the same reason some necromancers are, to ensure he doesn't go fighting any of the dungeon inhabitants. Lord Lovidicus is notably also a part of the normal Vampire faction.


The word undead is only used in reference to Ash Vampires not being undead, and the text itself is not conclusive.

Not to mention the dunmer have a huge bias against vampires. They'd try to put them in as much bad light as merishly possible.