I think you have the best answer out of all these, Aluthren. Lore has no limit really because it's just the imagination on paper (or in this case, from the keyboard onto the computer). A computer game has extreme limitations so there are tons of things that should happen in game but don't. Hence why we have so many zillions of mods.

Lovidicus having a child is lore, as it is an event that happened. This is not a gameplay thing, this is something that the devs intentionally did. Undead do not procreate. The fact that his genes enhanced the grey prince's abilities, without giving him bloodlust, is further evidence that he was a living creature infected by something.

That's the point I was trying to make. People have a huge bias aganist vamps so everything they write will be slanted.

I remember something about "The Wolf Queen"'s undead army. Which didn't include vampires...

But the again...

In his "legion of undead", The Camoran Usurper didn't shy away from using Vampires (I remember they held the position of "Generals" or something like that).

Upon reading posts in "Legality and Vampirism" in this section, I saw a post starting with "That's the Cyrodiilic vampires..." And this kind of clicked with there being differences in vampires in Vvardenfell and Cyrodiil. It is more generally accepted, perhaps socially and culturally, the vampires of DF and Morrowind are undead, while Cyrodiil are diseased "humans", at least as far as the player is concerned. But all spring from the same disease originally. They all are Porphyric Hemophilia.

Diseases can evolve, especially if a simple one is taken into a new environment, with new factors and variables to influence it, not only from the conditions surrounding it, but the people it affects, because every person is unique. And given that, depends on where, from whom, how, etc you acquire the disease, affects the outcome. This is very evident in Morrowind with the three vampire clans. If bitten by a specific "member", you will obtain the normal characteristics of a vampire as well as the respective and selective traits of the clan's. You have their strain of the disease. Taking this one example, of which I am sure there are numerous, it is perhaps safe to say that Vampires are diseased individuals. But you cannot conclude it there.

Contracting the diesase has a period of three days in which on the third, the disease "activates." Your body turns. But into what? Does the disease kill you? It is likely that what occurs is that the disease itself acts as a virus and attacks the body, changing it in the process. But just because you change does not mean you do not need to feed. Perhaps the substance that Vampirism requires (because we're no longer talking about the disease known as Porphyric Hemophilia, but rather the matured version which can be called 'Vampirism.') is drawing the life force, in the form of blood, from other bodies. What does blood contain? A lot of iron. Perhaps a symptom of the Vampirism disease is a deficiency (or rather increased use of it) of iron, or a dire need of it. The diseases had already changed you, perhaps it changes the substances you can process, your digestive track, etc. Or, to give into the fantasy-side, simply that it requires the life force/magicka? of other people.

You, in essence, become a parasite, influenced by the, what I call, virus. It enhances some features of you for its own survival, your survival. But to survive, it needs blood. When you feed, it "calms" the virus, it doesn't have a need to hunt for survival. As you wait more to feed, it becomes more aggressive. Not necessarily making you more powerful, albeit that it is what it is, but that it switches into predator/survival mode, attempting to force you to feed it, making it easier for you to acquire the food source instead of allowing itself to die.

Though this is short, and only covers small parts of what I would love to expand on, I, personally, cannot consider Vampires to be undead by the sheer biology of it all. Yes, TES is a fantasy not bound by real world logic, and the origin of Porphyric Hemophilia isn't biological in nature, but it is a disease, and diseases, even in TES, behave a certain way.

I think people also need to realize the syntactic nuances of the very term "undead." Are they alive? No. Are they dead? No.

So the whole thing about needing a working circulatory/digestive system, or the idea that one that works suggests life, is somewhat up for debate. Maybe their life support systems are only "activated" when substances like blood or potions pass through them. Or maybe the blood cells themselves, infected with the disease, rely less on the organic structures of the body to operate.

The original vampires created directly from the actions of Molag Bal may have been undead by strict definition, but that was long ago, and the vampires of the 3'rd/4'th era are probably only a diluted form of the originals.

There was probably no cure for the original vampires, and they may have had Daedric elements that are completely gone now. Like a gene pool, the effects and qualities of vampirism are diverse throughout Tamriel. Just read, "Immortal Blood" to see how varied, the types of vampires are.

As far as Cyrodiil vampires not being "dead" because they can procreate...we've only seen that happen with a male vampire and a live female. I don't think that proves anything until we see a female vampire get pregnant. I can't remember what it's called,and it's not something I'd want to blindly try to find out on the internet, but I believe there's been evidence of men...umm...releasing...after death. Particularly those who have been hanged. If someone wants to try to find out if that's true or not, go for it.

Lord Lovidicus had been a Vampire for quite some time though....he and his servant fell in love, and prior to that he had a wife; implying reasonably common Vampire lovin' and throughly fruitful loins.

Once I have to bring in the fact that semantozoa survive only three days after leaving the body, and presumably after death into a discussion about the lore of the Elder Scrolls something is very wrong.

What motivation did Vile have for signing his concordant with the Vampires of Cyrodil? Aside from the fact pacts and eldritch dealings are how Clavicus Vile spends most weekends.

They probably offered something really nice, like their own souls or something.

I actually think that Janus Hassildor and the pale old lady have something to do with each other.
As the jailor knows her, and she has bottles of human blood in her "Interrogation room" it is possible.

And Janus can be a powerfull man and wizard, but vampirism changes people.

Vampires and lichs are too similar to be separated. I can list a number of reasons why, but that would require more text. The two belong in one, or don't belong at all. With a little crazy glue, and reinventing the necromancy lore section, they would augment the mythos.

no, they can be turned back. you can't possibly change a zombie back (the magesguild doesn't even try with that guy, but they'll give you the Hasildor recommendation for vampirism)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

There are no symptoms of vampirism except this -- if the victim sleeps after the attack but before he becomes a vampire, his sleep will be plagued with nightmares.

During this two to four day period, when the disease has been spread but the victim is still mortal, most any temple healer can remove the curse of vampirism. There will be no further warning.

I do not remember dying. I had been a scout for an order of knights which shall go nameless for this......

My trip back to the knightly order was a five day journey. I decided to get some rest early to get my arm in better shape in case I found any more trouble. I can't remember the dreams I had that night -- only that I was doing something horrible and I couldn't stop myself. I woke up screaming. The next night, at an inn a little closer to my destination, my sleep was deep and dreamless. On the third night, I died.

"Of course, I didn't know that I died. I had gone to sleep in a nice warm feathered bed and I woke on a cold wet stone mortuary slab"

Yes, vampires in ES are Undead, the natural perversion of nature(In their point of view).

Already covered. You're talking about a specific clan of vampires in that book. You'll notice in the Iliac bay region(Such as in Daggerfall), vampires typically die first and wake around 2 weeks later. In MW and OB, you do not pass out for 2 weeks. You go to sleep and wake up like nothing has changed(besides the vampirism). It's accurate to say some clans are undead, but not that all are. Long dead people can't have children.(Agronak's father was not undead yet was a vampire)

Already covered, as a the disease can be inducing a death-like state in the victim without killing them, and in the example provided, the guy is telling his personal experiences, not a neutral observation of the transformation. As such, he may be misinterpreting events.

How is it hard for dead people to have children? They are Undead...not entirely dead. And if I am not mistaken, it was probably the Nine that granted him a child, perhaps, judging by the journal entry.

The male baby making factory requires certain temperature ranges not met by walking corpses. And you think Arkay would allow him a child if he was undead?

Indeed, but his lack of bloodlust was perhaps because of his Orc mother, which was not a vampire, but a mortal woman. Hence the fact he is half vampire.

"Joy and exaltation! She is with child! My beloved Luktuv is carrying my child! The midwives predict a boy, and we have already settled on the name Agronak. In truth, I never realized such miracles were even possible, but the Divines have granted us their blessing, and so shall it be."Lovidicus

Uh, dude, that amounts to saying "Thank God for blessing us with a child," not because the Nines literally caused daddy's baby making machine to work.

Also, vamps can control their bloodlust, it's the lycans who can't

Uh, dude, Vampires cannot control it for long though, they will eventually go into a frenzy and kill. They can control somewhat of it.

Janus Hassildor's wife seemed to have avoided that. Although I suspect that she never drank blood, and that's why she went into a coma instead of going feral. In addition, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mastrius didn't seem particularly mad, and he was likely sealed up for centuries or perhaps even longer, whereas Lord Lovidicus would probably have only been locked up for a few decades at most. Perhaps Mastrius simply learned to live (or unlive) with it over his much longer imprisonment.

So many contradictions to vampiric lore. /sigh. Lord Lovidicus probably had more, willpower? Hehe. Instead of embracing the gift, Rona Hassildor shunned it and went into a coma, I think its probably psychological. But Janus was mum on that.

Well, I think they are Undead. It's been speculated here that Cyrodiilic Clans are NOT Undead, but the vampire in Immortal Blood says otherwise.

"I told him what I could. There was but one tribe in Cyrodiil, a powerful clan who had ousted all other competitors, much like the Imperials themselves had done. Their true name was unknown, lost in history, but they were experts at concealment. If they kept themselves well-fed, they were indistinguishable from living persons. They were cultured, more civilized than the vampires of the provinces, preferring to feed on victims while they were asleep, unaware."

If they were "Indistinguishable from living persons", it means thet are indeed the walking dead. As to how Lord Lovidicus had a child? Its indeed a miracle, who knows, Clavicus Vile gave them the power to sixually reproduce.

"Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power."

Who's to say that the bond can only help their ability to walk in the day? Or walk among men, looking like them? It's possible they have the power to make babies as well, in the case of Lord Lovidicus.

It is my belief that vampire's aren't undead (hence turn undead doesn't work on them.) They may think that they are dead, because of their temporary loss/ extreme slowing of a heartbeat, but they still can drown – which shows tat they still must breath. Arkay doesn't like them because they live forever, but not because they are undead. from Arkay the Enemy. If he is saying to the unbound dea, AND Vampires and Liches, then thus is proof for my belief. However, if the comma after dead should be a semicolon, then it is evidence against it.