I remember during the E3 presentation that VATS builds would be powerful, still every presentation so far seems to make it just an addition to a shooter gameplay while VATS was basically introduced in Fallout 3 for players which would play the game more like old Fallouts.

So will it still able to play its old purpose, or will some players be cast out of having a characters which know how to use a gun because the player doesn't?

VATS is rule from AP so still is possible. Even on F3 u need to rechard AP to keep using VATS.

In FO3 my technique was:

• Use VATS
• Jog backwards
• Use VATS again

I'm looking forward to actually being able to shoot where I'm pointing this time...

Well, they still have Grim Reaper's Sprint, Action Boy, Concentrated Fire, etc. Now, there's even a perk called Gun Fu that increases damage when you target more than one enemy in a VATS round.

VATS have undergone under lots of changes:

-There's a critical bar now, and outside of it you won't crit, so depending on how fast it takes to be full you may crit a lot less than during normal combat, the exact opposite of what it was before.

-Know VATS doesn't stop time, so you may actually not spray your targets as well as you used to.

-During high level fights in Fallout 3 bullet sponges were compensated by Grim Reaper Sprint, but it's no longer there (only activate 15% of the time). For exemple without it I would never have be able to finish Mothership Zeta. So what if high level enemies are bullet sponge once again?

-Etc...

yeah but that doesn't remove the choice to permanent use VATS, VATS still rule from AP that is what make u do more or less shoots.

Actually the VATS not stoping time add a little more fun to it, is still SUPER slow i have see the video leaks, but there still some little movement that make VATS feel alot more alive.

U still crit outside VATS, by the way. VATS crit mean 1 shoot pretty much for what i saw on the videos.

Actually I don't understant your point.

It's actually great that FPS players are able to enjoy the game more.

What would be weird through would be to force old fallout player to now go into FPS while there was a viable alternative way of playing the game which doesn't affect FPS players at all.

Actually Grim Reaper's sprint isn't really there.

And it will be a problem if Bethesda decided to go the bullet sponge way one again (Mothership Zeta ).

I didn't say "outside of VATS". "it" was for "critical bar". Actually the only time I shoot not using VATS is when sniping things.

You cannot actually critical in VATS outside of the critical bar, and I have a big doubt I'll be able to crit half as often as I was able in Fallout 3 (which was 99% per shot).

There are tons more additions to vats along with the old perks including: awareness, which lets you see an enemies stats in vats. Critical banking, which lets you save crits for later use. And penetrator, which lets you target enemies limbs behind walls or cover. So I feel like with these things vats has a much greater tactical advantange than before for those who plan every move.

I would agree with you if those addition where not just trades.

Crit bar and critical banking come at the cost of no crits no matter how much bullets will hit your target's brain, and critical banking come at the price of the +15% crits in VATS.

You can now (try to) shoot behind walls but before that your enemis didn't have the time to go behind said wall.

I'm just saying that in FO3, using VATS only got you so far, even with perks.

I spent a good time running away.

FO4 appears to have the perks that allow you to own VATS.

It also appears to have the FPS mechanic so you can actually shoot them in the face, rather than spray and pray.

vats is a great way to apply an rpg affect. unlike FO1 and 2; FO3 and NV, likely FO4, will make the game really easy.

Have a high luck stat and you should be good. Grim Reaper spirit has been changed a bit and will suit you perfectly.

Head over to orkz perk chart and read the high luck perks it seems you should be able to crit quite often. perception and agility also have some great vats perks.

I did too.

But high level would have been totally unplayable without the true Grim Reaper Sprint because of damage sponges.

Actually when re-reading myself I see the main problem I have with the new VATS has a name: damage sponges.

Hope there won't be such enemies spammed in my face this time.

That's quite a shame IMO. It probably means that ~what pass for characters~ do not have any innate or learned abilities, and are now truly but hollow husks for the player to wear in the simulation.

LOL u dont make sense so u like a mechanic that make u miss alot.

his point is that the aiming was partially character-based, not player based.

Problem with this argument is that Fallout 3 and New Vegas were/are FPS/action RPGs, and that system was clunky and simply did not work in-game

I never miss in Fallout or Fallout 2 ~or FO3. (I'm ~usually not the one aiming.)
But the characters miss a lot; and they miss more often when they lack skill with the equipped weapon. Now it seems that with FO4, they have no skill at all, and are but 'puppets' that have to have their aiming done for them.
*This is what the weapons skills were for.

I don't recall being able to do "VATS only" combat in FO3 until you got some significant AP increasing equipment (or very high Agility) or some very high level perks. You could easily dispatch maybe one or two enemies at a time, avoid combat while your AP recharged and kill another enemy, but staying in VATS continually in a fight was not really possible until you got Grim Reaper Spirit (a level 20 perk).

I don't think anyone here knows the details of how FO4 VATS is going to "play" compared to FO3 VATS until we use it. Obviously we have some sketchy info and some here are making (potentially good) educated guesses, but until we actually get some hands on time with it, that's all those opinions are....educated guesses.

It appears to be another copy of Human Head's Rune... The PC seems to build up kill points to charge an insta-crit meter.

I expect that the percentages follow FO3 [a mistake IMO], instead of Fallout 1 & 2; being proximity based damage bonus instead of linear difficulty with commensurate (possibly instant kill) bonuses.

To do a VATS heavy char, will require some pretty heavy investment into PER+AGI+LUK.

More into agi and luk tho.

Action Boy should be your 1st perk to invest in. Increases your AP regen.

Mysterious Stranger is also a good one imho.

I am planning to play mostly with VATS and 3rd person only, like I did in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

...possibly some over-educated guesses...